Aug 27, 2009

Religion, God & Other Separate Matters

Thanks to PM Lee's NDR speech, the media has been churning out article after article, for weeks, on the topic of religion.

This is ironic, considering that very few people may actually believe in God.

You may think that I am being facetious here. After all, billions of people around the world believe in God.

But do they really?

I shall quote a conversation between a certain old man and a certain young man, in a novel which I shall not name. What the book title is, and who the author is, is less interesting than the point which the fictional old man makes:
The old man leaned toward me, resting a blanketed elbow on the arm of his rocker.

“Four billion people say they believe in God, but few genuinely believe. If people believed in God, they would live every minute of their lives in support of that belief. Rich people would give their wealth to the needy. Everyone would be frantic to determine which religion was the true one. No one could be comfortable in the thought that they might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal damnation, or bad reincarnation, or some other unthinkable consequence. People would dedicate their lives to converting others to their religions.

“A belief in God would demand one hundred percent obsessive devotion, influencing every waking moment of this brief life on earth. But your four billion so-called believers do not live their lives in that fashion, except for a few. The majority believe in the usefulness of their beliefs—an earthly and practical utility—but they do not believe in the underlying reality.”

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. “If you asked them, they’d say they believe.”

“They say that they believe because pretending to believe is necessary to get the benefits of religion. They tell other people that they believe and they do believer-like things, like praying and reading holy books. But they don’t do the things that a true believer would do, the things a true believer would have to do.

“If you believe a truck is coming toward you, you will jump out of the way. That is belief in the reality of the truck. If you tell people you fear the truck but do nothing to get out of the way, that is not belief in the truck. Likewise, it is not belief to say God exists and then continue sinning and hoarding your wealth while innocent people die of starvation. When belief does not control your most important decisions, it is not belief in the underlying reality, it is belief in the usefulness of believing.”

“Are you saying God doesn’t exist?” I asked, trying to get to the point.

“I’m saying that people claim to believe in God, but most don’t literally believe. They only act as though they believe because there are earthly benefits in doing so. They create a delusion for themselves because it makes them happy.”

“So you think only the atheists believe their own belief?” I asked.

“No. Atheists also prefer delusions,” he said.
I shall be taking a break from blogging, to turn to my other writing pursuits. See you in another week or so.

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

The fictional old man is wrong.
It simply means most people have a stronger belief in the other God. The other being Mammom.

Could u put up a non-religion related post before going on sabbatical(pun intended)?

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mr Wang. I guess this must be from a new novel that you are writing because I know that you know very well that for legal reasons you can't quote a page of text like that without attribution! Looking forward to reading it and finding out what the young man thinks of it.

Dilbert said...

The excerpt is from God's Debris, by Scott Adams (author of the Dilbert cartoons). The free e-book can be downloaded here: http://www.andrewsmcmeel.com/godsdebris/

Anonymous said...

Atheists don't believe in delusions (or at least we don't want to believe in them even if we unknowingly do so).

Anonymous said...

The following is a true story:

While on a 10-hour drive to the next town, my boss and I were feeling sleeping, exhausted by the meetings and hosted dinners of the past days.

Suddenly he said to me, "What is your religion?"

I quickly collected my self, "Sir, I am a Christian, and baptised at a very young age as a Methodist"

He went on, since I offer no further comments, "Do you know what I believe in?"

"No, I don't"

He said "I go to church, I believe in Allah and I also observe the Indian religious activities."

"Won't that be confusing?"

He similed, "It is like buying insurance. One of them must be correct"

Kei Simone said...

Whoa, synchronicity alert!

last night i was talking with my brother and i quoted the same point about how believers don't really believe 100% what they believe in, though at that time i cannot recall the book i read it from.

Weird huh?

Reading through your post , i had an instant recall. it was god's debris and it was really thought-provoking.

another very cool point from that book (i think, but cant be sure) is that there is no way to conclusively disprove ESP.

Anonymous said...

the fictional old man is not always correct.

i believe eating more fruits, doing more exercise, going for facelifts and being kinder will make me look younger and stay fitter.

but i can't translate that belief into actions because i have no time nor money or simply too lazy.

likewise people who believe in God might not be able to lead a holy, much as they TRY to, because of SIN.

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is no justification for what the old man said about atheists ;)

Z said...

"Atheists don't believe in delusions (or at least we don't want to believe in them even if we unknowingly do so)."

You could substitute the word 'atheists' here for anyone.

feeblechicken said...

If anyone is interested in the psychology, neuroscience (or both) of belief. There are alot of books out there. I've just read "SuperSense: Why We Believe in the Unbelievable Bruce M. Hood" and I recommend it. ALL of us believe something even if we are atheists. Some of us like to touch, knock wood for good luck. Some beliefs just have more power (political particularly) over people than others.

Anonymous said...

perhaps they're like that lady learner driver in the tv commercial who only listen to...."good news".


the instructor may represent the helpless god who watches his creation in total exasperation as she wrecks havoc with the car seemingly under his sacred instruction.

tianhong said...

this is a issue i have to deal with to. hence i feel inter-religion relationship might quite a tough way to go through.

marriage is a issue especially when non-christian partner has to face the peer pressure of telling his/her church friends.

after marriage, religion for kids will be also a issue.

The said...

/// Anonymous said...
but i can't translate that belief into actions because i have no time nor money or simply too lazy. ///

Then that is no belief, or half-hearted belief as the old man is trying to tell you. Will you simply be too lazy to jump out of the way when you see a truck barreling down on you?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr. Wang, thanks for your post. Perhaps the old man in your story could consider this; We are all at different stages of enlightenment.

tkl said...

perhaps... believing in a religion and believing in God are separate matters? How you perceive God through your religion also affects how you act - it's about interpretation. I believe in God/gods, but I tend to think religions are man-made platforms to channel that belief, and the choices are usually made more for personal comfort, family, communal, social, and yes, earthly reasons. Case in point - the "Gospel of Getting Rich": http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/16gospel.html?_r=1

Anonymous said...

To me, most people "believe" because of either they are born into the religious family or they have such friends to influence them. But overall i would say most of them are people with no confidence.

they need an equal backup with others to get the sense of security. You can choose the backup of a rich family or a politically strong father, but once you choose God, then all will be the same.

But how many truly believe? I would say the % is really low. Because it will only means trouble for the world and no political leader would want to see that.

eg. no such things as peace between religions because if you truly believe in your God, then all other religions are evil.

people will not work and live normally. Why do you have to work for other bosses? You should be working for God and he will give you everything. In most cases, they are working for others to give God.

Even pastor, monk, priest see doctor when they are sick? why?
They should be praying and get well, not seeing a doctor.
If you truly believe, even your 1 year old baby is having a fever, you would not bring him to doctor but pray for him to get well, thats your faith. But if you do that, everyone will think you are crazy, including majority of your fellow religious members.

No one can totally get this out because it can even lead to a WW3. But it just goes against alot of things that are right. So keeping them low is the only things any leaders can do.

Anonymous said...

Why do people live life for death?

We should live life, for life itself. 60, 70, 80 years is not a very long time.

Anonymous said...

To anon at August 28, 2009 11:33 AM

Your comment reminds me of another story.

There was this very religious man who fell very sick and is dying. However, instead of visiting the doctor, he kept praying and hoping that God will help him.

As he lay dying on bed, he heard a knock on the door, and the person at the door said : "I'm a doctor and I am here to help". The man replied : "Go away, I want God to help me instead.". The doctor left, and came back the next day to do the same, and the man rejected him as well. This went on until the man died eventually due to the sickness.

When the man went up to heaven, he saw God and asked: "Why did you not help me when I laid sick on my bed? I prayed everyday, helped everyone around me and was kind to all." And then God replied: "I did. I sent the doctor to you, but you turned him away."

tianhong said...

just to add on. it doesn't mean if u believe in your religion, others will be evil. it only apply to some.

it also depends on the people that believe in the religion.

religion is a sensitive issue because everyone has their own believed. looking forward for your next post, mr wang.

numbernine said...

Yah. I've always believed that atheists are the most deluded people of all.

They'll write plenty of books out there that tell you that there is no such thing as heaven and hell, that there is no old man in the sky.

They are so deluded they are not even wrong.

Most of these statements are literally true, but none of these things ever come close to what the real issue is: God exists because he lives in the hearts of men, and therefore God exists so long as men exist.

Does happiness and sadness exist? Well you can't weigh it, you can't touch it, it's not made out of stuff you find in the periodic table, so by that same logic, neither exist. These people don't understand because they don't have the vocab to talk about the spirit.

Nietzsche talked about the death of God, but he is not dead. In the 1960s they predicted the end of religion. They were wrong again. They will always be wrong.

The major religions always talk about false idols, and idolatry. The zen saying goes, "if you see the Buddha on the road, kill it". Buddhism is not about enshrining the Buddha. It is about the way you live your life, how you feel towards other people, not what you profess to believe.

The Muslims even refuse to make pictures of their saints, and of God. The intention is noble, because in effect it is telling you, God is not an idol, which is true. But sometimes you can take a good idea too far.

In this formulation, the atheist is the fool who takes pot shots at these false idols and congratulates himself for being clever.

That (idolatry) is the first great delusion. The second great delusion takes place when they talk about "humanism" without realising that it is just old wine in a new bottle.

Anonymous said...

To Anon August 28, 2009 11:33 AM

You are confusing religions with belief in God. Religion is a belief system where people come together to practise their religion, whatever it may be and not all religions believe in the existence of God. So leave religions and religious people out of the this topic. Your arguement about priests and other religious people seeing a doctor does not hold water. If you are not aware, there are many doctors, judges, etc; who profess to believe in a God/Gods. These are Singaporeans I am referring to, for your information. Anyway that is not the point I am writing about.

Anonymous said...

People do believe in God, but when it comes to putting into practice their belief, the usual outcome is it is not possible to do so because of selfishness and greed.

Not everyone will be willing to give away what he or she has accumulated in a lifetime, so for that person to be deeply religious is perhaps not to be expected. Of course Bill Gates and a few others are the exception.

When it comes to actual practice, I think the poorer people of the world are more willing to follow the word of God more faithfully.

In poverty people rely more on spiritual comfort. In wealth people look for material comfort instead. The divide is rather obvious.

Mr Wang Says So said...

"People do believe in God, but when it comes to putting into practice their belief, the usual outcome is it is not possible to do so because of selfishness and greed."

---------------

The old man is saying that if you truly believe in God, there cannot be selfishness or greed in you.

It would be like saying: "I truly believe that a truck is coming toward me now, but I still would like to stand here."

The said...

/// numbernine said...
God exists because he lives in the hearts of men, and therefore God exists so long as men exist. ///

Looks like this qualifies as the most deluded statement...

Chrisloup said...

/// numbernine said...
God exists because he lives in the hearts of men, and therefore God exists so long as men exist. ///

Evil exists because evil lives in the hearts of men, therefore evil exists so long as men exists..

ergo : God = Evil

Q.E.D

Chrisloup said...

[quote]
The old man is saying that if you truly believe in God, there cannot be selfishness or greed in you.

It would be like saying: "I truly believe that a truck is coming toward me now, but I still would like to stand here."
[/quote]

ah. but whose god? Kalima? Shiva? Tezcatlipoca? Zeus? Odin? and erm Yoda?

Anonymous said...

http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2641920

Reality vs Perception of Reality is not limited to hte religious sphere.. Contrast this with reports of our economy in the local papers

Anonymous said...

The old man is right.

We are living in a delusion whether we believe in God or not. Whether you are rich or poor, male or female, straight or gay.

In essence, everything is empty by nature.

Anonymous said...

Hey, don't knock delusion.

When enough people believe that a few pieces of paper are worth a lot, you can even build a career out of it.

When enough people believe that the scrap of paper you hold proves that you are intelligent and educated, you can get a comfortable and well-paying job.

When enough people believe in the words of one man (or a few), a religion lasting thousands of years can be built.

The list goes on and on. And really, if one looks in the mirror, really looks, one may find that he/she is a lousy self pompous ass.

But if the person believes/deludes himself/herself otherwise, then the person can live life p.r.e.t.t.y w.e.l.l.

Anonymous said...

we all have different degrees of selfishness. it is part of our survival instinct and nothing to be ashamed of or that one should feel condemned about it( because it is "evil").

that said, anything( in regard to our humanity) which is out of control, unmoderated or exploited( especially by capitalism) can lead to negative social as well as personal consequences.

religion is just one part of the equation to balance the human chemistry.

however, as history has shown, religion has proven more to be a political pawn( and a bloody one too) than a life transformer.

therefore, i disagree with today's papers " a flipside to the religious coin" which, according to their studies, suggests religion is not that "inward-looking".

in fact, some religion has become so "spiritual" that they believe "god" lives within them - therefore they constantly "inward looking".

if everyone walks around thinking a "god" in them directs and empowers their activities, we may have to relive our bloody history again.

numbernine said...

Evil exists because evil lives in the hearts of men, therefore evil exists so long as men exists..

Also,
Good exists because good lives in the hearts of men, therefore good exists so long as men exists..

ergo : Good = Evil

Q.E.D

How about that? Up is down, left is right, freedom is slavery and war is peace.

numbernine said...

I think there is a profound squeamishness about religion. It is so much easier to believe that God is something other than yourself, some effigy or idol, and then it's easier to attack.

The more useful part of religion is that it is a statement about what human nature is like. God is a description of the human spirit. Nothing magical or supernatural about that at all. No reason at all to reject religion per se unless that sort of thing makes you squeamish.

Then the atheist will attempt to justify his belief that God does not exist, on the basis of empiricism. And conveniently forget that anybody who has ever had a religious experience for himself can empirically report what he feels.

A fundamentalist is somebody who adheres to a literal interpretation of a doctrine, applies it where it is not applicable, and exhibits plenty of fear and consternation when things happen and they don't understand it.

Religious fundamentalists came about when they saw that science was causing people to foresake God. They started espouse a more severe, extreme form of religion and declared war on Science.

Atheists (esp the Dawkins / Harris type) are fundamentalists as well because their confusion about how so many people understand religion (and they don't) is driving them nuts. They start to despair when their version of events doesn't become the standard accepted one.

The fact is there have been countless false predictions about the demise of religion over the last couple of hundred years. Religion will never die.

Anonymous said...

The analogy of the truck is not so accurate.

If the truck is oncoming, I only have seconds to decide whether I need to get out of the way to avoid being flattened. I thus decide to jump out of the way immediately.

If unbelief in God means burning in hell, and if it means going there instantly, I will believe immediately. But if I think I am not likely to die today or tmrw, I will take my time to decide.

One example calls for immediate action. The other gives me the impression I can take my time to believe in God.

Anyway, most people straddle somewhere in the middle - belief in a god, and the existance of selfishness.

It is not fair to ask people to choose between two extreme examples, and insist that those two choices are the only possible choices available.

numbernine said...

Anon at August 29, 2009 12:36 AM

I want to expound on your point about perception of reality vs reality (which is the issue addressed in critique of pure reason by Kant). This is a good point. For me this is the central issue of religion.

God is not an old man in the sky. God is not some idol you pray to. God is a person's mental model of how the universe works. This is why God is variously depicted as a Father, the universe itself, a great leader.

Then there are a lot of values that you project onto this vision of God. Whether he is kind and caring, or vicious and wrathful (as in the Old Testament - this is a timely reminder that Christians do not always see God as a kindly being)

Faith is nothing more than the questioning and the validating of this mental model.

The fact that you need a certain amount of faith to understand and interpret something as mundane as a report about the economy - that should tell us something about the vital aspect of faith in our lives.

g said...

the old man has confused belief with obedience. believing in the reality of a god does not equate to obedience. the inability to act in obedience stems from human selfishness, not unbelief.

i believe in the reality of my parents, but i don't always do what they ask me to do.

for a person to jump out of the way, he needs to:
1. BELIEVE in the reality of the truck
2. WANT to live.

so you see two components (belief in the reality + will) are necessary for the action to take place, not one (belief alone).

believing in the reality of a god does not mean we always desire to do what he says. religious people fall short of your expectations because they aren't able to love/obey god wholeheartedly, even if they genuinely believe in god.

Belief is its own proof. the presence of the individual will in the equation means you cannot discount people's belief based on their actions.

Anonymous said...

'A belief in God would demand one hundred percent obsessive devotion....'

Why can't God just make humans 100% devoted to him instead of leaving this devotion to choice. God certainly has the power to do so. This is also ironic.

Mr Wang Says So said...

Let me put it in another way that more people might understand.

Let us say you believe in God. Let us say that the version of God you believe in is a God who's all-powerful and omniscient and who loves you etc.

If you truly believed this ....

You would never feel afraid or lost or in despair. NEVER.

Why should you? After all, your God is everywhere and all-powerful and loves you and watches you in every moment. There is no reason to ever feel lost or afraid.

Anyone who ever feels afraid or lost etc therefore cannot be a believer in God.

Mr Wang Says So said...

"i believe in the reality of my parents, but i don't always do what they ask me to do."

----

Of course you don't. Because you don't believe that your parents are all-powerful; omnipotent; omniscient; the supreme creator of the universe etc.

You might not even believe that your parents are anything more than rather ordinary, average folks.

But if you TRULY believed that your parents are all-powerful; omnipotent; omniscient; the supreme creator of the universe etc, then it is inconceivable that you do not obey them.

Mr Wang Says So said...

"If unbelief in God means burning in hell, and if it means going there instantly, I will believe immediately. But if I think I am not likely to die today or tmrw, I will take my time to decide."

----

This equates belief to a decision.

However, if you see a truck coming toward you, you do not need to decide whether a truck is indeed coming to you.

Anonymous said...

According to fundamentalist christianity, disobedience to God damned humanity. To reverse the curse, obedience of one perfect man leads to salvation for all but only on condition if you put your trust in him.

Silly as it maybe, millions believed in such a gospel.

If so, then the argument will have to yield to Mr Wang because, disobedient or disbelieve in God brings damnation or will deny you of salvation.

Ultimately, obedience is imperative to one's salvation since it was in disobedience that brought us death.

And obedience must be the qualifier of true faith.

Anonymous said...

"....it is not belief to say God exists and then continue sinning and hoarding your wealth while innocent people die of starvation..."

What if some people belief in God and they would live every minute of their lives in support of that belief, they would be frantic to determine that their religion was the true one, they are not comfortable in the thought that they might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal damnation and they dedicated their lives to converting others to their religions. But, they also hoard their wealth and continue doing unthinkable things in the name of God and proclaimed that their richness is God-given?

Godwin said...

I believe enough to push an unbeliever onto the path of a trunk, does that count?

Anonymous said...

But if you TRULY believed that your parents are all-powerful; omnipotent; omniscient; the supreme creator of the universe etc,

... but wants u to be free men and does not dish out instant punishments and often keep quiet\invisible ...

then IS IT inconceivable that you do not obey them...

occasionally as sin is sometimes more "fun"?

Mr Average Wang

Anonymous said...

However, if you see a truck coming toward you, you do not need to decide whether a truck is indeed coming to you ...

unless it is traveling at a mere 10 km/h and there is a $10000 bill lying on the road that could buy a lot of beers and maybe worth a few scratches ... decisions ... decisions ... the Christian God gives u a choice u know ...

Ok, its not much of a choice but still a choice.

... wow ... no Christian bashing ... Amen!

Percevale said...

Mr Wang,

Apologies, I'm a fan of the blog but this write-up was a little lacklustre (understatement)

Belief in a God/Ideology doesn't imply obsessive devotion or unfaltering personal convictions.

Example:

I believe in God, but it doesn't mean that I won't ever falter and choose sin because it's human to be tempted and succumb to immediate self-gratification.

Additionally, there are many who TRY their best to follow the basic tenets of their faith but as mentioned in one way another in many other religious texts- attaining that perfection is a lifelong and worthy pursuit. One may not achieve it, but one must strive to.

Be it nirvana or entry to heaven, the authors/creators/deities in these religious texts understood the frailty of the human psyche.

numbernine said...

It is all squeamishness, that is what I see in the comments. People are incredibly inventive when it comes to reasons not to believe in God. In fact, to not even sin.

If you have to be told that there is a hell in order for you to do the right thing, that is not really faith. If you have to figure out which religion to believe in because the wrong one will send you to hell, that is not faith.

Also want to reiterate a point Mr Wang has made quite a few times: faith doesn't mean you believe in something and you believe it completely. Faith and belief only matters because you act on those beliefs.

Arguing about religion is one of the most stupid things ever because everything is about what you do. (I know, I know, I'm doing just that but somebody has to make this point.)

michael said...

Anon @ August 29, 2009 9:23 PM:

You fail to see the point.

The point is not that the religion in question grants you the freedom to disagree and do "fun" things. The point is that if you truly believed in the religion, you wouldn't.

Put it another way: if God(s) teach to treat your neighbours kindly, but gives you the freedom not to, would you be truly religious (i.e. following God(s)'s will) if you abuse your neighbours? God(s) technically allows it, but you're going against the very teachings which make up your belief system. Can you still be considered religious?

Anonymous said...

Certain religions are basically "self-bashing".Frankly speaking, one cannot follow its teachings or sacred text right to the very last dot and still be tolerant or expect others to be tolerant of them. To deny this ratiocination is to deny truth, self, history , honesty and most of all, their God.

At the end of the day, economics predominant may enforce the inevitable. However, the price maybe an irrational society( or leadership) based on hypocrisy and thus, the ultimate undoing of an entire nation.

Anonymous said...

what we have here is religious tolerance by the use of force. we are ignoring inherent divisive teachings because we fear legal punishment. so many people are forced to practice a kind of bastardized or adulterated religion in order to achieve a peaceful society.

if view from a positive light, some may applaud our people for being innovative( altering religious imperatives) and pragmatically wise.

but if view from the other perspective, the people are actually cowardly(denying the cross), deluded, irrational, dishonest and lack spine.

for money sake, i think we can live with the latter?

Anonymous said...

Dear Michael

I do get the point.

However, do understand that we are mere mortals.
E.g, many students truly believes in the importance of exams. They try very hard but not every1 gets a perfect score do they?

Average Wang

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael

pardon the multiple post but if u were referring to "holy wars" they are inevitably politically motivated.
if u are referring to individuals, then ,at least for Christians, Jesus do not recognise them either.

And to Anon 1:26

Good point actually. Which is why Jesus basically said ... trust me and just try ur best la ... new covenant.

Religious organizations are staffed by imperfect human and therefore flawed and often filed with hypocrisy and can be discouraging but I just tell myself that I dun worship these leaders. I worship God and pray that they at least have a working compass if not the perfect navigation skills.

The heros in the Bible were all flawed. David committed adultery. King Solomon idolatry. So if u are already perfect and looking for the perfect religion then maybe Christianity is not for u.

Mr *Real* Wang may have some recommendations.

SMS said...

"You can choose the backup of a rich family or a politically strong father, but once you choose God, then all will be the same"...
/-----
YOU HIT THE BULL-EYES -> Believing in God makes you realise how little control you have over your own life be it your purse, problems etc. Even the smartest brain in the whole world does not know that the big bank can fold up... How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

Anonymous said...

apparently, some ppl here r not qualified to talk religion.
these ppl give the false impression that there is a "choice" in certain religions or faith.
well, the truth of the matter is, you don't have a choice.
salvation requires you to be subjugated. there is only one pill you can partake and that is the only way, only truth and the only life to god.
any other way leads to hell or eternal damnation.

pls do your homework, and put on your thinking cap, before you engage in religious matters.

i hope that clarifies the absoluteness of certain religions and its ultimate implication - which could be bloody.

that said, we don't want to proof the authority wrong that there is no such thing as tolerance when talking about religion or for that matter. politics now there is?

if there is any form of tolerance displayed to support their "intolerant stance towards a tolerant society" is because this is a moderated blog with fishy bloggers around.

hence, not a place for such debates or discussion less we proof the authorities wrong and i too prove you wrong.

Anonymous said...

"However, do understand that we are mere mortals."

rubbish. that popular excuse mostly comes out of half baked religious and unthinking ignorant followers who want his/her cake and eat it too.

true faith, propagated by especially rich preachers( listen carefully to their double talk), offers you no such luxury.

if anyone will to claim "mortality or imperfection" as an excuse, it might as well be Adam in the garden of eden - and mind you, not the lhl version.

of course, that couldn't be allowed to happen or else, your entire faith will be truly rubbished.

Anonymous said...

Wang, so sad. After I point out that you should live life for life, so many people replying are still living life for death.

Don't get my point, how to get your point?

Mr Wang Says So said...

It's true - they don't get the point. :)

Many of the "counter examples" given just reflect that.

Anonymous said...

Live life for death?
This concept is new to Christians (at least to me).

Could Mr Wang (and the smart Anon) explain why this is so?

Sadly the church I attend is rather small, conservative and the preacher is anything but rich.

Actually, I find it amazing that non-believers seems to know the Christian faith so well when it takes even the most devout Christians a few years to complete the course at Bible College.

PS: I understand English even if I do not write very well. However, could u refrain from words like "rubbish"? They are rather distracting and unbecoming of your superior intellect.

Ah Wang

Mr Wang Says So said...

I'll explain nothing.

It is fun to watch people here, arguing against their own insecurities of various different kinds.

Anonymous said...

do not be disheartened. not everyone can write well - ahem. but your ability to understand engrish offers hope and pride to our new colonial masters that they have indeed progressed with their programs.

recently, there was a report to assure a certain profession of great prospect ahead. i thought to meself, was there a need to further massage whimsical egos? perhaps, it was timely for the fraternity to dress its wounds after the unceremonious exposure of mismanaging clientèles monies by their own.

then again, perhaps, there is a need to address a latent insecurity in this particular profession correlation with corruption of a self serving kind you think?

like Mr Wang said,

I'll explain nothing.

It is fun to watch people here, arguing against their own insecurities of various different kinds.

Anonymous said...

Aiyah Wang, bo bian loh. I also don't see the need to explain lah.

When you are blinded, you can see only if you take down the blinds. And faith builds the confidence of sitting around shouting about visions, blinded.

By the way, I is the horjiber lah.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Wang

I am rather disappointed.
I was really looking forward to an earth-shaking declaration that u have found the evidence to demolish all religions.

In this blog, u are God, no?

seriously, i am a big fan of your blog. minus the religious posts which are obviously for ur amusement. though it is distressing that a man of your superior intellect would find "fun" from the discomfort and clumsy attempts of ur fellow singaporeans at a topic that has been ongoing for thousands of years (and which will continue for thousands years to come).

PS: 2 more days to your next post?

Ah Wang

Anonymous said...

any How call Wang this Wang that Ah WAng is yor father is it? Shew respect when tock to Mr Wang. He is big time lawyer like lky you know

Anonymous said...

Dear horjiber

If u are an Atheist, then Mr Wang is also mocking u.

Ah Wang

Are we alone? said...

Seems like no one has noticed that every single word of God that exists today has been written by Man.

I would like to say that I am agnostic which is different from atheistic.

The reason why religion is so powerful is because people need to find a reason for their existence. The most important question is why are they given consciousness at birth and then have that removed when they die. What happens before and after consciousness? Mostly, they are worried with the "after" part. I, myself, am no exception but I draw the line at using religion as a form of discrimination and persecution of others. Unfortunately, every religion I come into contact with has contained zealots who practises this. Worse still, some religious texts (all written by Man) actually advocate the practice of discrimination and persecution (probably the only one that bucks this trend is Buddhism but I am not sure about the reincarnation part). It is for this reason that I cannot bring myself to believe in any religion, even if they promise salvation from eternal damnation.

I don't know whether animals have the same level of thought about existentiality but I would think this applies only to humans.

Anonymous said...

Agnostic?
Which version? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

You are not alone.
Mr Wang is one too. The zen-Buddhist-spiritual-intelligent-agnostic type. God is in him (or something like that).

Which is why he is having a good laugh at us dumb mortals who worship him (atheists) or other unworthy(-of him) God(eg Abrahamic? ones)

And obviously all religious texts are written by humans. Though the Jews would argue that God carved 2 stone tablets for them.

Being written by human means inconsistencies due to translation and interpretation. Biblegateway,eg, lists 20 different flavors (in english) of the Bible. tibetan buddhism is quite different from zen. Quran alone insists on Arabic but unfortunately they too suffer from different interpretations (sunni, etc).

Virtually all religions preach peace. Again (a difficult concept for superior beings like Mr Wang to grasp) is that mere humans like me (Ah Wang, average IQ , lousy engrish) are imperfect and sin daily. And as you are aware, having a faith means that we are automatically paid up members of the flat earth society and of course blind. Easily manipulated by superior beings with nasty ambitions (and not just bored like Mr Wang).

And please remember, on this blog, Mr Wang is God. Please be polite.

PS: can we have the next enlightening article soon? I am getting withdrawal pains already ...

Ah Wang
(sorry its my ancestor's fault for sharing ur glorious surname ... wait ... u are Mr Koh ...)

Kaffein said...

Well, just take a look at the Finger of God here at Youtube. Too amazing and awesome to stand there and be a skeptic.

Blessings and Shalom,
Kaffein

Anonymous said...

That fictitious old man said "Likewise, it is not belief to say God exists and then continue SINNING ..."

Ah, I see where the author is coming from - a Judeo–Christian background, trapped by its postulates that the world is sinful, gone wrong to begin with.

Well some Eastern "religion" or more correctly simply Eastern teaching such as Taoistic kind - not to be associated with Taoism as a popular religion - never sees the ultimate in that fashion.

It is all here, the Tao, Yin and Yang are all here. And the understanding of these principles or forces have been completely authenticated & absorbed into the Chinese culture - in language, medicine, diet, moral teachings etc. Gone mainstream if you will, not noticed anymore because that it is no longer a religion in the sense of the Middle Eastern kinds.

Anyone can think out any theory of an ultimate all-powerful "God" but as atheists sometimes retort "Show me God" if you want to convince me.

At best it is just a belief without proof over the thousands of years of such beliefs - only as good as belief in existence in Santa Claus.

Mr Wang Says So said...

LOL, no.

You should really read the book. "Judeo-Christian" would be way off, as a description of it.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the old man.

He's missing out a very huge part of what God has to offer to us; "Grace."

And who are we to judge whether a person truly believes or not? It's a matter of the heart, that only God knows. So let's not try to.

cheers.
MR.Ginger.

sandycharm said...

I like the old man. There are many ways to reach God.