Apr 25, 2009

AWARE - And Why You Should Cancel Your DBS Credit Cards

April 25, 2009
Aware saga
Disagree? Form own group

Founders say those who disagree with Aware's issues should form own group
By Nur Dianah Suhaimi

FOUNDERS and longtime members of the Association of Women for Action and Research on Friday slammed the new women in charge for the way they seized power on March 28.

Founder member and former nominated member of parliament Kanwaljit Soin said: 'It is not just a women's issue but the whole issue of how civil society actors behave in Singapore.

'If the new members do not agree with Aware's issues, then they should not join. There is plenty of room to start another organisation.'

In a statement, the old guard attacked the way in which a group of unknown new members showed up at the annual general meeting and put a set of new faces in charge.

If they were unhappy with Aware, they could have complained, invited Aware to a seminar to discuss its programmes, or even written to the media.

'Instead, these women joined Aware in the few months before the AGM and then voted their representatives into the executive committee - without giving any indication that they were acting together. They continued with this stance until Thursday when they told the truth.

'This cannot be the way forward for Singapore. We cannot have people acting like moral vigilantes running around and taking over established organisations.'

...... The old guard said: 'If Dr Thio and her mentees feel that Aware has strayed from its original aims, or that some of the programmes are unsuitable, then go ahead and criticise Aware, but do so openly.

'Better still, form their own association to offer parallel programmes with what they see as the right messages, and let the public choose which they prefer. Their motives and actions will then be visible to all, there will be transparency and accountability.'

I have a lot of respect for Kanwaljit Soin. Through the years, time and time again, I've come across her views on a variety of social issues. And I find that she speaks with a lot of clarity, conviction and good sense. In fact, when I was still a law student, I even had to study Kanwaljit's views. Her speeches and articles formed part of the Family Law syllabus at the NUS Law Faculty.

Today, Kanwaljit is once again her usual self. She slices through all the distracting smoke and fluff around the Aware saga, and gets straight to the heart of the matter. I agree fully with her. In my opinion, the new Aware ExCo has no credibility. They deserve no respect.

Yes, the new ExCo team employed a certain strategy and they won the Aware election. And yes, their strategy was constitutional and legally "correct". But it merely reminds me of the PAP's gerrymandering tactics - the way they brazenly redrew the maps, changed the electoral boundaries to their own advantage, and forced their way to election victories.

Those PAP tactics were also constitutional and legally "correct". But those tactics carry no sense of integrity and deserve no respect. At any rate, they won't gain my respect.

I feel exactly the same way about how the new ExCo members have invaded Aware. Their tactics are as honorable as a terrorist attack.

As you probably know by now, the new ExCo chairperson is Josie Lau. She works at DBS, marketing credit cards. Today, for what it's worth, I am going to make a small, symbolic gesture as a DBS customer.

I will call DBS and terminate my credit cards. The DBS person on the line will ask me why (they always ask for that kind of customer feedback). And I will say that it's because of their Head of Marketing, Josie Lau.

I will say that I have a very poor opinion of her behaviour in the Aware saga, and that for that reason, I have decided to stop using DBS credit cards. Furthermore I will request for my feedback to be given to DBS's senior management.

It's a matter of principle. I am only one customer. But I will do what I think is right.

I hope that those of you who share my views about the new Aware ExCo, and who happen to be DBS customers, will do the same. In addition, I hope that you will forward my blog post to your friends and colleagues, and urge them to do the same too.

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Wang,

Had the exact same thinking with regards to the cancellation of my DBS cards.

While I do sympathise with the bank for being caught in a difficult position, the behaviour of Josie Lau was so disturbing that I will no longer feel at ease about using a product that is managed by her.

Anyway, the new ex-co had just sacked their centre manager on the basis of insubordination. Link: http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_368347.html

i wonder if DBS will do that to Lau for disobeying their instructions to run for President of Aware.

Anonymous said...

Mr Wang,

You are free to take the position that the new exco has hijacked the organisation and has no credibility - they're despicable. You're on moral high ground.

Yet, your objective in cancelling your DBS credit cards is to affect Josie Lau personally and her job directly. Same goes for your abetment of others to do the same.

Now that's real low ground, and below the belt. In most circles, it's called hypocrisy.

Roy said...

DBS has sought to distance itself from Josie Lau but it is not enough. If enough people cancel their DBS credit cards, perhaps they would sack Josie to stem the bleeding.

We should let Christian fundies know that if they want to spread their hate and venom in the public sphere, they must be prepared to be on the receiving end of hate and venom too. These fundies can be organised, but secular liberals can be as organised too. If fundies want to start a crusade, they must be prepared for a fight that would leave no aspect of their lives untouched, including their jobs.

S2 said...

Great expose on how Church of Our Saviour is connected to the larger "Joel's Army" movement.
http://dogemperor.livejournal.com/147779.html

Anonymous said...

First no agenda, no hidden motives..just started...now its revealed, there is an agenda.. also if what the deal about differentiating old guards and new guards even within the new execo and not informing the fellow execo member about press conference or keep their ex-advisor out of the meeting initially? The facts speaks for themselves..

Anonymous said...

To Anon(11:34am),

Pls don't forget that Josie Lau used her position as DBS credit cards VP to run the promotion that allows DBS to donate to the Focus on the Family, based on the cardholder's level of spending just last year.

It is reasonable to conclude that she used her job to push her religious agenda.

What goes around comes around...

Anonymous said...

In a way, one should have some sympathy for Josie Lau, who now, after the events of the past few days, looks like a deer caught in headlights. According to the press, nothing in her past hints at any tendency to be involved in public charities or foundations.

But now we know that the Old Battleaxe is really the mastermind behind this. It's curious that she would want to be involved in this (given that she claims that this is actually too small for her to be personally involved, and that she is too busy making money). But it all makes sense for her to sacrifice someone related (by marriage) yet not that close to her, and certainly not her own daughter or daughter-in-law. That said, it would be rather difficult for her daughter to take on this role and push her agenda seeing as she is an old spinster and dresses like a man.

The carefully-orchestrated acts remind me of a certain bearded gentleman hiding out in the caves in Pakistan, sending out his naive C4-strapped minions to do his bidding, and yesterday's front page ST picture looks like one of those video broadcasts with the caves in the background and an AK47 propped up on the wall behind, i.e. a statement of intent ex post facto.

Anonymous said...

Support Mr Wang! too bad i am not a DBS card holder, otherwise i will also cancel mine.

Anonymous said...

R: How is cancelling our DBS credit cards below the belt?

Putting my point simply, why should we trust a bank who hires someone with integrity problems. Isn't integrity one of the MAJOR requirements for someone working in a bank? If someone is willing to do that to Aware, which is an organisation which is in full public view, God knows what she would do next in the bank?

DBS, do the right thing. keep your integrity, keep your customers. Lose Josie Lau.

Anonymous said...

To anon 12:30 pm

Well said. Karma indeed.

Anonymous said...

Guys should call Kanwaljit Soin their hero. In 1996, she "made a valiant attempt to equalise the alimony law between men and women" (http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-480.htm)

But the PAP, mostly men, disagreed! Haha.

Anonymous said...

I agree completely...

There should have been more action taken by DBS in the first place when the Focus on the Family saga played out and DBS stopped using it as a promotional stance...

The red warning lights should have been flashing

Now that she's revealed herself as a bible pushing troll, I really don't see why we should not take steps to make our sentiments clear.

For the record, I already stopped banking with DBS when the Focus saga came to light...

Say what you like but as far as i'm concerned... My money is paying her and cementing her position, which she is clearly using to push a non-secular agenda.
And I am NOT ok with that.
That's not hypocrisy, that's conviction.

chrisloup said...

over the FOTF saga, I've shifted my mortgage loan over to HSBC.
(because they gave me a damm poor excuse of FOTF being a secular organisation - its obvious the response was developed by Josie's dept).

and over this aware saga, I've called in and already explicitly mentioned it and terminated my cards

(its not as hard as it seems, and within 2 days, I've already changed all recurring bill payments on this card to UOB)

Onlooker said...

I can survive without a credit leveraging tool from a bank which have a manager who used her position to push for her "PERSONAL" agenda.

Just curious though, the mass membership influx can actually be observed if they have a rule where new members have to at least participate in 1 election before they vote.This will also allow them (the new members) time to be familiar with the people who will be nominated.

And the method they used is similar to the Backdoor GRC method.

Mr Wang Says So said...

I request that everyone who wishes to comment, (whether you're pro-this side or pro-that side, and whether you agree or disagree with my post) to exercise some judgment in their tone and language. Comments which are too provocative and inflammatory (one way or the other) will not be published.

There's a culture (you might have noticed) that I like to promote, for my blog. People are free to agree or disagree with each other, but I encourage intelligent, sensible, reasoned comments and I discourage slugfests and flame wars.

Anonymous said...

Oh for crying out loud! Wang, do what you must lah. By the way, there was no 'instruction' from DBS to Ms Lau NOT to run. If there was, then it would be a violation of personal rights. :-)

Anonymous said...

If you would like to terminate your DBS credit cards, the telephone number to call is 1800 111 1111. Most of us carry too many credit cards anyway.

If you do not have any DBS credit cards but you would like to tell the DBS what you think of their Head of Marketing anyway, you can use the online feedback form available here.

In my opinion, people who want to use the DBS online feedback form should honestly state their real names. (Needless to say, if you are terminating your credit cards, you would already be doing that).

My view is that Mr Wang's suggestion is perfectly legitimate, if you share his views about the new Aware ExCo. In the US and Europe, it's common for consumers to boycott products and services from companies, just to make a point about what they think is right or wrong. As Mr Wang said, it's a matter of principle.

Anonymous said...

Don;t like PAP, form opposition group.

Don't like Aware, form own group

Don't like Geylang Serai poison food, form new hawker centre.

Don't like MacDonalds, start new fast food chain.

Don't like what you see on a blog? Get out forever and start your own blog.

(This is what some people really believe)

Anonymous said...

i do not have faith in Josie Lau acting on behalf of DBS and have terminated my credit card. is that hypocrisy?

Secular Spore said...

Hi Mr Wang

I am a straight, secular Singaporean man. I called DBS yesterday to cancel my credit cards because of the Josie Lau fiasco.

The lady on the phone asked me why I was cancelling, and I told her it was because I was very disappointed with Josie Lau's actions.

She just said ok, and noted that my card was terminated with immediate effect. She didn't ask for any clarification on what I meant, and no counter-offer was made (like how they would normally try to waive your annual fees). When asked if my reason for termination would be reflected to senior management, she said that "we will note your feedback". Just to be sure, I put in a note on the DBS online feedback column yesterday too.

Josie Lau has demonstrated a willingness to disobey her employers, and I fear that her marketing department will attempt to support another christian political lobby group with money from Singaporean of all races, religions, and sexualities.

(Btw the DBS rep had a Filipino accent so the call-centre may have been outsourced).

Anonymous said...

I think its perfectly to cancel your DBS cards, moral high ground or not, Christian fundie or not, those are not important. As paying customers, you have to be sure that the organization in question adheres to high standards of integrity and professionalism. Ms Lau had shown neither of those. If she cannot give a straight answer to anything during the AWARE saga, we should not trust her to do so when handling any of her money. This kind of corporate ethics, directly or indirectly will filter down to everyone working under her. She has tarnished her brand and her organization along with it.

Jim said...

Hi Mr Wang,
It looks more of a redemptive action by the old Aware. There is more than meets the eye, if they have really done a good job overall, judging from the dwindling membership over recent years and cold response in attendance of the last AGM (less than 30 members came). So the signs were there for the making, but simply the old Aware took things for granted.
The crux of the issue should be the all encompassing word - "inclusiveness". So far the old Aware seems more convincing in their embracement of this word. Though we should give the new Aware the benefit of the doubt and scrutinise their agenda, manifesto and plans first (when they have these in print), the way they have dealt with the sackings of former excos, subcommittee members and managers leave a sourful taste in terms of professionalism and transparency.
But what if pro-gays took over Aware? It doesn't sound right too, that's why I cannot accept the suggestion that the new Aware should set up a different organisation if they are anti-gay.
Jim.

Saint Splattergut said...

Your article was a real treat, thanks for speaking up on this issue.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Wang,
I totally agreed to your point. I have just cancelled my DBS credit card.

Anonymous said...

Terminated my 3 CCs from DBS. They requested for recording of the conversation which i agreed.

My feedback is that i opposed to their employee (Head of Marketing, CC) participation in hostile takeover of a society using her religious influence and enforcing her religious beliefs on Singaporean which should practice religious tolerance and equality.

I have also indicated that as long as her remains in her current appointment with DBS, I would not sign up for any credit cards or bank account with the bank.

Anonymous said...

if you are interested

https://www.dbs.com.sg/contact/Pages/staffcode.aspx

There's a pdf detailing staff code of conduct.
And a form for you to fill in, if you feel their staff is in breach of it.

Anonymous said...

I just did. Thanks for the suggestion.

Anonymous said...

Whoever joined the AWARE are those who wanted to contribute to society one way or another therefore JIM asked "if they(old guard) have really done a good job overall, judging from the dwindling membership over recent years and cold response in attendance of the last AGM (less than 30 members came). So the signs were there for the making, but simply the old Aware took things for granted."
They(old AWARE) are just doing charity and not a job that needs KPI or MBO - to hit donations target or meet membership quota. What if the membership hit record high and donations in streams of millions, will we see another "Ren Ci" episode forming?.... which the new AWARE may potentially be dangerously heading to?....

Anonymous said...

Calling ro cancel your credit cards from DBS shows that you are as malicious and as much of a hypocrite as you claim Josie Lau is. They may have agendas and i applaud them for succeeding. But is this the best we can do? to cancel our cards? thats downright evil, hoping she would lose her job. If you feel so much for it, go set up your own group, attend the EOGM and place a vote of no confidence. these actions have more weight that cancelling your cards.

Tan said...

@Jim (2:20pm) - You are right; AWARE leaders should not all be in power to promote a common agenda, whether it be a pro- or anti-gay stance, or a pro- or anti-anything stance for that matter!

I like how Mr William Goh phrased it in his letter to ST Forum, published today:

"Does it augur well if the exco of any secular group comprises leaders with only one religious affiliation?"

Anonymous said...

"But is this the best we can do? to cancel our cards? thats downright evil, hoping she would lose her job."

Funny. The new ExCo has been steadily sacking everyone in the old Aware, including an admin secretary who had worked there for 15 years. Doesn't that mean that the new ExCo is downright evil too?

Anonymous said...

If I were DBS, I would start monitoring very closely this blogospheric initiative to cancel DBS credit cards (so that I can take appropriate steps quickly, if necessary).

But knowing how inept DBS is nowadays, they might well lose 5,000 customers in three days before they realise what hit them. :D

Anonymous said...

AWARE sex education states that "HOMOSEXUALITY IS PERFECTLY NORMAL"
And here you are supporting the old guards who are espousing such teaching.
Even if you think you can guide your children, think about other parents who may even be unaware of what their children are being taught in schools.

ahjusi said...

With Christians who can't separate their religious beliefs with their work in DBS, I can't help but wonder if my business with DBS is dependent on my religion. Will I get the best interest rate if I am Christian, and have my loan application denied if I am atheist? The Focus on the Family fiasco shows that such scenarios are possible.

Mr Wang Says So said...

Huh? But homosexuality IS perfectly normal (in a certain percentage of the human population).

As a matter of fact, this is true not just for humans, but a wide variety of other animals such as chimpanzees, blue whales, lizards, lions, crabs, worms, geese, ducks, penguins, giraffes, dolphins etc etc.

To educate yourself, do click on any of the following links:

News MedicalNational Geographic NewsWikipediaScientific AmericanMSNBCNew ScientistWorld Science

Anonymous said...

Why stop at DBS?

Stop doing business with companies who use Thio Su Mien and Partners.

Jimmy Mun said...

Some years back, when Dana Lam was AWARE President and was asked about the contribution of men in the form of national service, she commented that it is no big deal as women serve national service too by having and raising children. In a country with one of the lowest birthrate in the world, I wonder if she is in favour of having laws to imprison women who fail to have two children, by say, 40. In recent interviews, she repeatedly said that her work with AWARE was like NS, as though men has any choice in choosing when, whether or how to serve this country.

And as an organisation out to fight for rights for women, they didnt seem terribly interested in championing for the welfare of domestic helpers, until very recently, probably because most of the members are maid employers.

That's my impression of AWARE. A feminist power grab organisation. I'm not sure if that is still a good description of the old old AWARE, recent old AWARE or the new AWARE.

Let's face the facts: most of you are anti-Josie Lau because the strange bedfellows of MSM and the gay movement told you so.

How is the old guard behaving any differently from PAP? You dont like PAP, form your own party. If you have the guts to challenge them in election, they are going to "expose" you and get you fired from your job.

Josie Lau hasnt done anything yet, and yet you are all ready to stone her with credit card cancellations. I am personally quite anti-FOTF, but I cannot agree with the herd behaviour here.

Anonymous said...

I have sent a note to DBS Bank as follows :-

I am completely disgusted with one of your Vice-President Josie Lau. In the Aware saga, she has revealed to us that she is such a deceitful, shameless & vindicative person. Considering that her position is a VP in your bank, I feel threatened by her religious thoughts and discriminatory behaviour and therefore would rather not have any dealings associated with her.

As a first sign of protest, I would like to instruct DBS Bank to carry out the following instructions for me :-

1) Cancel my DBS VISA Platinum Card No. .... with immediate effect.

2) Cancel my DBS-TD-Waterhouse Securities Account No. .... with immediate effect.

3) Terminate my CPF Investment A/C with DBS Bank under A/C No. ..... with immediate effect.

4) Cancel my MySavings Account No. ..... and all standing instructions with immediate effect & transfer the balance to my POSB Savings Bank A/C No. ...... , of which I will terminate later.

Trust DBS Bank will be able to accept my instructions to carry out the above transactions.

Regards,

Anonymous said...

I've cancelled my card too. Even if Mr Wang didn't say so. I don't care about Christian fundies or gays, but I do care very much about banking with people like Josie lau who has proven with her own actions that she's got very little integrity and honesty in her. What's banking about, if it is not first and foremost about TRUST? Can we trust Josie lau?

Mr Wang Says So said...

Jimmy:

This is a digression from the main topic - but I must say that I most certainly do not support the idea of NS for women. It's bad enough that my son will have to do it when he's 18; it would be even worse if my daughter would have to do it too.

As for your PAP example, well, I think that if somehow the PAP got successfully infiltrated by a bunch of unscrupulous schemers from some fundamentalist religious group, and as a result suddenly Lee Hsien Loong and Lee Kuan Yew and Goh Chok Tong all got ousted overnight, then I actually WOULD be very sympathetic to the PAP. And I'd probably even think that our national security has just been seriously threatened.

Wouldn't you?

Anonymous said...

Someone speculated in another forum that DBS is hesitant of sacking Josie Lau becos of the repercussions from the mega churches whose tithe collection are deposited with the bank. These mega churches may have hidden sympathies for her & her gang. Just think of the recent donation drive from one particular mega church, that is a whopping lot of money in mega millions. Of course one can argue, that one should not put all the eggs in one basked & spread it out. So other than DBS, any sensible financial controller would also spread it among other banks.

But still, a substantial sum may end up in DBS, so if they sack her, some big time money which is monstrously larger than the miniscule DBS credit card dept's worth. Simple arithmetics.

Castle said...

"Stop doing business with companies who use Thio Su Mien and Partners."

Good idea. TSM is the queen behind the conspiracy and yet she is letting her pawns (like Josie) take the fall for her. She doesn't even have the guts to join the exco of AWARE, but would rather be the puppeteer from behind the screen.

If the AWARE coup didn't backfire to the extent that the queen needed to step in to aid her inept pawns and save the game, TSM probably would never have shown her face, and the public would never have known her role in all of this. Insidious.

Anonymous said...

I don't see it written anywhere that Mr Wang wants Josie Lau sacked from DBS.

There are many other possible ways that this could turn out. For example, Josie Lau may say, "I'm sorry for the way I behaved, I hereby apologise to all Singaporeans and I resign from Aware."

Or she may say: "I have prayed to Jesus for guidance and He told me that I should treat everyone with love and kindness. That includes gays as well as the old Exco members. Yes, I want to be the President of Aware, and I want to raise awareness about the problems and issues that lesbians face."

Or she may say: "I was just a pawn of you-know-who and I got manipulated into this big mess. Now that I know better, I seek to reconcile with the old Aware ExCo and I hope to cooperate and work with them on women's rights."

Or she may say: "Actually, come to think of it, what the hell am I doing here? I hardly know anything about women's rights or social issues. I have no experience with any NGO. Unlike Constance Singam, I wouldn't know what to say to the United Nations about women's issues. I think I'd better quit and focus on my career at DBS."

LOL, some of the above could just be my over-active imagination.

Anonymous said...

I'm reminded of the case of a primary school in Jurong West where only halal-found was allowed to be consumed in the school canteen.

The full-story can be read here:

[url]http://www.singaporehalaldirectory.com/Singlenews.aspx?DirID=76&rec_code=183908[/url]

The ruling was eventually overturned when MOE intervened.

So I leave you with your imagination as to what can happen if you've an overzealous religious fundamentalist at the helm...

Anonymous said...

What I cannot approve is the bringing of religion or worst forcing your personal religious beliefs onto others.

Wondering if this sort of conduct is acceptable to the government who has stated very clearly that they do not allow such activities.

Jimmy Mun said...

Mr Wang,

I want NS abolished. The problem with people like Dana Lam is that she refuse to recognise the contribution and the sacrifice of Singaporean men in NS, choosing to belittle it wherever possible.

If PAP can get infiltrated and get taken over by fair means, then the old guard is not fit to rule. It's as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

I hate to say this, but the comments here seem quite one sided, being based on the assumption that the platform that the new AWARE Exco will be pushing is anti-homosexuality.

If you followed the saga, what you'll find is that the timeline of events is:
1) New Exco got voted in.
2) The ST started investigating and publishing stories about the new Exco. Silence from them.
3) The old Exco claims that the new Exco's election was a planned hostile takeover with an anti-homosexuality Christian fundamentalist agenda. This is based solely on forum letters written by some of the individuals from the new Exco in their personal capacity.
4) Other side stories like the expiration of the term of office of their subcommittee chairpersons, and problems with permanent operation staff cropped up.
5) New Exco finally explains that they stood for office, as they were concerned regarding the pro-homosexuality focus of the old Exco. They may have been influenced by Thio Su Mein, but I think that the new Exco who all seem to be rational professional persons must have been personally convicted regarding this issue.

Unless you believe that it was a premediated hostile takeover, the new Exco have claimed that they do not know each other beforehand ie they all stood for office based on their personal beliefs. Hence, this saga isn't a Christian fundamentalist takeover unless you believe in conspiracy theories.

The new Exco had not had much chance to do anything other than fight fires, although I do feel that they should have released their manifesto much earlier to prevent all these wild speculations. Thus far, it seems like all they've said is their aims are:
1) To look into a wider scope of issues affecting women
2) To relook into the focus on homosexuality held by the old Exco. They have not said that they will hold an anti-homosexuality stance even if that is their personal belief, and I hope that they will respect the individual's choice and instead have AWARE hold a NEUTRAL stance on this issue.

I say, give the new Exco a chance and let's see their work. The old Exco did not have much impact on our greater society in any case, and as long as AWARE doesn't turn ANTI-homosexuality, I think it'd be fair.

Not Evil said...

I do not think it is "evil" to want Josie Lau to lose her job at DBS. During these trying times, when many people -- including dedicated workers at AWARE itself -- have lost theirs, it is absolutely disgusting that she continues to be employed by the bank. This whole episode makes me think that DBS is complicit in the AWARE saga, and should be deservedly punished for it.

Rick said...

I got no DBS credit card right from the start, but I am going to cancel my POSB savings account and transfer all my money elsewhere.

Mr Wang Says So said...

Anon 25, 2009 7:26 pm:

I would have been quite willing to give the new ExCo the benefit of doubt, up to a certain point. In fact you might have noticed that until today, I wrote zero articles about the Aware saga, while the rest of the blogosphere was going on and on about it at full blast.

However, when Thio Su Mien finally came out in the open, it became quite clear to me what was really going on. It's all more or less along the same theme as what her daughter was up to, 2 years ago.

Alan Wong said...

Isn't Dr. Thio a very dangerous person since she said that Aware is too small for her.

Wouldn't it be more effective if the Thio family can remove and replace the Lee family with their own Christian puppets ? Especially the cabinet is already full of Christian Ministers.

Then they can have control of the whole cabinet, legislative & justicial system, made Christianity the official religion for Singapore, expel all the non-christians/gays/lesbians from Singapore.

Isn't it frightening ?

Anonymous said...

If you cancel your cards you'll have fewer discounts...:)

Anonymous said...

Mr Wang, did TSM not give u gd grades when u were a law student? ;)

Anonymous said...

Could there possibly be a higher figure behind Thio and Derek? They certainly don't have the numbers to bulldoze their agenda through, but a few sympathetic MPs could make them a more pervasive threat.

Anonymous said...

There is certainly some christian fundamentalism at work in the AWARE saga. In the new Exco, 6 of 11 are from the same church:

http://www.coos.org.sg/index.php?sectnum=p1&coospg=coos_statement.html

How can that be a coincidence?

There has been leaked e-mails originating from TSM showing that she was the main mastermind, heavily influenced by religious beliefs.

Anonymous said...

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20090424/tap-496-new-exco-wants-bring-aware-back-231650b.html
The new exco said AWARE had become a single purpose organisation overly concerned with promoting lesbianism.

They repeatedly raised examples, like how the old guard had backed a lesbian film screening in 2007 and organised a lesbian—friendly Mother’s Day event in 2006. And they wanted to bring the association back to what they say is its original noble cause.

When contacted for comment, former AWARE president Margaret Thomas said those comments were ridiculous and not deserving of any comment."



For anyone who still doubts the potential malicious fundie tendencies of the new AWARE.
The mother daughter relationship is one of the strongest in the family unit, whatever your daughter/mother has done, the relationship is cast in blood, unbreakable.

A lesbian still has a mother, actually.. there are probably lesbians who happen to be mothers themselves. Whatever the case, there is likely to be great anguish, conflict, confusion, doubt etc in family relations, they will have to find ways to come to terms with the situation. It is commendable that the old AWARE tried to help strengthen family ties in such cases by organising a Mother's day event for them.

What would the fundies do? In their world, I suppose the lesbian mothers and daughters would conveniently disappear somewhere and thats their problem? Perhaps burn in some hell.
Great... an AWARE that puts religion above the sanctity of family blood. If thats not Taliban I dunno what is.

The said...

/// I hate to say this, but the comments here seem quite one sided, being based on the assumption that the platform that the new AWARE Exco will be pushing is anti-homosexuality.
April 25, 2009 7:26 PM ///

Anon @7:26,

No, no assumption is needed. Even before Thio Su Mien's "coming out" press conference, Josie has lied on national TV. She claimed she only took the presidency as the "last man standing", yet DBS's statement said Josie told DBS she intend to stand for the presidency and was told not to.

Josie and Maureen claimed they don’t know each other until the election. The new exco team claimed that their religious belief is their personal belief and nothing to do with their joining/taking over AWARE. Well, look at the emails below and judge for yourselves.

* * *

From: smthio@xxxxxxx.sg
To: stjh21@xxxxxx.sg, Undisclosed-Recipient:
Subject: Re Aware
Attachments AWARE_membership_mail-in_application_form.pdf concerned parents.1.do
PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

Dear All

Please see Attachments on some recent developments in Aware. Aware is a woman’s organization which conducts comprehensive sexual programmes for girls and it runs this programme in some of the schools. They encourage girls to express their full sexuality and this includes experimenting with other girls. It would be a good idea to join it and change its focus to other problems of women and families.

..Please ask your like-minded friends to join Aware so that you can give the vote to those who wish to be an agent of change for the Lord. They could also contribute to the activities of the oprganization as there is much to be done for women and families in this dowturn of the economy. Unfortunately, I cannot surface but shall be assisting in the background . I attach the Aware membership application form for your use. The Aware application form has a section as to who ( if any) told you about Aware. You can just leave it blank . Please let me know whether you can join and attend the AGM which will be towards the end of March 2009. The fee is $40/ and should be mailed to the Aware Office ( see application form).

Look forward to hearing from you. Please call me. May I have your phone no?

Blessings,
Su Mein
From: lynkl@xxxxxx
To: leonglh@xxxxxx, siowkee16@xxxxxx.sg, shari200@xxxxxx.sg., aikhoons@xxxxx.sg, siuyoong@xxxxx.com, sulilee8@xxxx.com, jesgbf@xxxxx.com, eschan@xxxxx.sg
Subject: Fw: Re Aware
Attachments AWARE_membership_mail-in_application_form.pdf McFarlane v. homosex therapy.htm selected articles (1).pdf

Dear beloved Sis In Christ,
Would like to ask you and your like-minded friends who are believers to join as members of AWARE to cast votes and be a change agent for the Lord in some of the recent issues happen in this organization that is not according to the Lord’s principles………..
Please pray for Lord’s wisdom to pass on this important message as it is confidential……
Thank you.
Lynn.
12/2/09
From: Mervyn xxx
Sent: Sat 4/18/2009 11:59 PM
To: xxxx Xian Jin; FOONG Tai Wei; Adora TAN Su Yan; Eugene TAN Jia Rong; ZHOU Siming
Subject: RE: AWARE - Your Action Needed

Acknowledged. We (Eugene and I) had quite a bit of talk on this issue over dinner today.

Right now we should pray for the COOS members who are being put through scrutiny and invasion of their private lives by the media. Pray that God’s Word will prevail over the values of the world. Homosexuality isn’t God’s design and we pray that those who stand up against it and are discriminated will be delivered.

Praise God for COOS’ stand and He who aids us as we stand firmly upon His Word.

- Merv

Lotsa lessons to learn about how we Christians engage the world and secularism.

From: xxxx Xian Jin
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:37 PM
To: FOONG Tai Wei; Adora TAN Su Yan; Mervyn LEE xxx xxx; Eugene TAN Jia Rong; ZHOU Siming
Subject: FW: AWARE - Your Action Needed

Dear friends,

Thanks Tai Wei and Adora for taking an interest in the Aware Elections and how Church of Our Saviour has been embroiled in the controversy in the papers today. The media seems to have taken a strong stance against my church and this email is to update you all on the church’s position, which the senior pastor has kept mum about, but we would be expecting his comments in church tomorrow.

Below is an email sent out by a church staff to members of the church on the need for Christians to rise up and how they can be involved in this issue. Meanwhile, please pray for the church for it could be difficult time for members who are in the spotlight and the church could also be facing some brickbats along the way. Pray for God’s protection and wisdom to see us through.

DG, keeping you in the loop.

Xian Jin

——— Forwarded message ———-
From: Shawn xxx
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Subject: AWARE - Your Action Needed
To:

Dear Friend,

Our nation needs your support and action very urgently!

AWARE is an organization that has existed in Singapore for many years.

It is a non-profit body dedicated to women’s advocacy and gender equality.

They protect women’s rights and help develop women to their fullest potential.

In the last few years, AWARE has aggressively become involved in gay

activism. Many members of their committee are pro-gay. They have even

conducted a sexual education programme in some schools that teach

young people that it is normal and alright to behave homosexually. They

have also screened a lesbian-themed movie Spider Lilies at a Charity Ball.

During this week, AWARE held an election of office bearers. This event saw

many of the pro-gay old guards losing their positions in the committee to new

faces. These new people do not share the values of the pro-gay old guards

and has caused much shock and rage to the latter group.

The pro-gay old guards are retaliating by calling for an Extraordinary General

Meeting where they intend to amend the Constitution to only allow members

who have been with AWARE for more than 2 years, to vote. If this change is

passed, then only the pro-gay old guards and their cohorts will have the

power to do what they want.

To prevent this from happening, we are calling on all responsible females

to sign up for membership with AWARE immediately, and also to attend this

all-important EGM so as to vote against changing the Constitution.

If you are male and have received this petition, please pass it to as many

responsible females as you know and encourage them to sign up for

membership with AWARE so as to vote against any changes to their

Constitution.

The date for the EGM has yet to be announced but it should be soon.

Membership fees are $40 for adult females and $5 for female fulltime students below

the age of 25. Please print the attached softcopy of the membership form,

fill in the details (no need to tell who referred you), mail the form with your cheque.

Singapore is counting on you. Please respond.

You are made for such a time as this!

Pro-Family,

Shawn

________________________________

From: Linda xxx
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:21 PM
To: COOS English Church Staff - DL; Derek xxx
Subject: FW: Ps 68:11

Dear Pastor Derek,

The number of members registered on Tuesday night is 13 out of 40 who turned up.

One thing I forgot to mention this morning was the film show Spider Lilies (selected articles attached above)

The school children were told that lesbian lifestyle is okay.

Linda

Anonymous said...

Democracy lah.

The organisation is open to women. Go vote lah if one feels strongly against something. Otherwise forever hold your tongue.

AWARE's constitution provides for this course of action. If either party is dis-satisfied then go for an EOGM. Then the disffected better now turn up in full force to claim its validity.

Like Americans can't have Obama out and then later claim foul and say he (Democracts) is not legitimate simply people refuse to partake in the election.

Democracy has always been majority rule that's why UMNO for example imports millions of Malays from Indonesia over the years to beat its opponents. Alas this time the imports are turning against them because the government can't feed all of them adequately.

Anonymous said...

"AWARE sex education states that "HOMOSEXUALITY IS PERFECTLY NORMAL"
And here you are supporting the old guards who are espousing such teaching.
Even if you think you can guide your children, think about other parents who may even be unaware of what their children are being taught in schools."
-----------------------------------------

In response to the above, i have bad news. All the psychology and psychiatry textbooks of our day also taught the same damn thing that HOMOSEXUALITY IS NORMAL. Yes, just check out those textbooks in our university libraries. Entire generations of students and trainee psychiatrists are taught that HOMOSEXUALITY IS NORMAL. Worse, our university students are also taught that Discriminating against homosexuals is not ok. So even if AWARE didn't go to the primary schools and teach our school children sinful values such as tolerance, respect, and inclusivity - they are still going to end up learning about such things at university. So my suggestion is for our Feminist Mentor to carry out another stealth operation to take over our universities and revamp the entire educational system so that only the correct things are taught to our next generation, such as the fact that homosexuals are abnormal, negative, anti-family, perverted, deviant criminals (thanks to 377A) who are writhing in pain and have abusive fathers/distant fathers/domineering mothers (delete as appropriate) who cause them to revolt against society and commit acts against nature.

Cloudywind said...

just realised tat ive only got 1 dbs card, which ive used just once... their pts are so difficult to accumulate (its like u needa buy a car bef u hav enuff pts to change for an umbrella)... they dun hav dining promos like UOB and Citi... their customer service sucks.

aft i know tat Josie Lau is the boss, now i know why dbs cards sucks...!

Anonymous said...

Mr Wang, i was wondering when you were going to write about the Aware saga when it's already all over the streets.

Indeed, when Thio Su Mien's name appeared on the report, it pretty much destroys all the faith and last few glimmers of hope that the new Exco was genuinely acting for the best interest of the group and not for the Exco's religious beliefs.

Dear anon April 25, 2009 7:26 PM
Are u sure that they are gng to let Aware have a neutral stance on homosexuality?
taken from yawningbread.org: Pirate mother ship appears on horizon, guns blazing

"Dr Thio (Su Mien) said she went on to discover that in Aware's comprehensive sexuality education programme, which is taken to schools, homosexuality is regarded as a neutral word, not a negative word."
Neutral, not negative. is this education that homos are neutral not a contribution to society already? at least educated people are less homophobic (i'm making the assumption that they should be less homophobic as a result of the education), and promotes tolerance of homosexuals. This is a cause that is just as justified as our moral education which promotes that we should be tolerant of differing religious views.

I feel that the chances of Aware taking a anti-homosexuality stance is very high. afterall, Thio Su Mien, the person who pulled together the take over is the advisor for the new Aware Exco as stated in the CNA report, has such strong prejudiced feelings about homosexuality. if the new Aware does not follow such a stance, a newer Exco takes over.

Aware was a secular organisation, which means that they do not descriminate against sexuality. In the old Aware, if they had denied the sexuality and humanity of lesbians and not educating homosexuality as neutral, then they would indeed be heavily critized as being a Christian organisation, not secular as they were indeed discriminating a group of women. I'm surprised that Thio Su Mien was introduced as a mere feminist when she discriminates a group of women negatively. Her introduction as a feminist is just to justify the new supposed stance that the current Aware Exco takes, that women as defined by Christian teachings, will still be taken care of.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at April 25, 2009 7:26 PM who wrote: They may have been influenced by Thio Su Mein, but I think that the new Exco who all seem to be rational professional persons must have been personally convicted regarding this issue.

Well, I have known one of the new EXCO members personally for more than 5 years. She can be a rational professional at work. However her rationality goes out the window, when it comes to topics where her church prescribe a certain right-way. I am for inclusiveness, thus IMHO, her irrationality is fine within the context of her church activities and inter-personal relationships. However, it is a different story if she is part of a pre-meditated religious fundamentalist take-over a secular NGO to further her church's agenda or the agenda of influential person(s) from the church.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Wang,

Do you also, by the sentiments you have expressed herein, support same sex adoption rights?

Agagooga said...

Mr Wang: TSM's appearance also clinched the deal for me.

Yet, I think it is neither justified nor prudent to cancel your services with DBS.

Why you should not cancel your DBS cards because of Josie Lau
http://gssq.blogspot.com/2009/04/ive-wrestled-with-reality-for-35-years.html

Dr.Huang said...

Hi
I posted the following feedback to DBS under the Staff Code of Conduct issues heading:

Heading:Disgust with Staff Officer's ( Josie Lau's) Conduct

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you to register my protest and disgust with the conduct of your Josie Lau who abuses her position in your esteemed organisation to further her own personal and religious agenda.

I am talking about FOTF and the AWARE saga.

Please take active steps lest the action of one of your officers unfairly taint the reputation of the whole organisation.

DBS/POSB has been my bank for decades and I am sad that it has now been associated with divisive actions of a religious clique whose stance potentially might lead to a weakening of Singapore's delicate social and religious fabric.

I trust that the senior management of DBS would do the right thing!

Anonymous said...

I am deeply disappointed.

I have read many of your blogposts before, and I was impressed with the objective way you looked at issues.

However, Mr Wang, you are definitely NOT being objective here.

You are just jumping on the "christian fundie" accusation bandwagon. As someone stated above, I see no reason to label the new exco as being "terrorists" or "christian fundies" promoting an anti-gay agenda.

If I were to follow your logic, I would be telling all my friends now that your blog makes false allegations and people should boycott your blog. Well, but that wouldn't hurt you anyway would it? This is not your job!

So now, you are encouraging people to try and get somebody sacked from her job, all because you think she is promoting "hate and venom"? I have not seen any "hate and venom" from the new Exco of AWARE. The only person promoting "hate and venom" unfortunately, is you, Mr Wang.

Anonymous said...

It is strange how this very "western christian" antagonistic attitude towards homosexuality is defended as being against "asian traditional values".
It is not uncommon to hear of pastors demanding that objects with the symbols of dragons be destroyed as part of being a new christian convert. A collegue of mine has a large number of antique vases smashed. A neighbour has to remove her rosewood furnitures to the dustbin collection point where the pastor stood by to see that they were destroyed!
And the prohibition to carry joss sticks has requested in much anguish in traditionally chinese family.
Parents are coerced to convert to the religion of their children, who benefited from an english education and along the way, got converted to a "western
religion, because, otherwise their children will not carry out traditional taoist funeral rites for their parents, or that the parents are told they will not meet in afterlife as non-believing sinners go to hell.
Such non-progressive, non-thinking, inflexible interpretation of a religion is, in fact, anti-family!

Anonymous said...

wake up...most Singaporeans, esp in this downturn are a pragmatic lot. If DBS credit cards (and its affiliate POSB) offer the best deals and discounts (petrol, dining & travel) in the country, do you think people are gonna cancel their cards just because a bunch of women are fighting it out for power? Several colleagues (including women) have no interest in AWARE but are enjoying the drama that seems to unfold everyday. It's a welcome distraction from the economic doom and gloom. I think canceling your cards is at best a token (but principled) protest on your part and as you implicitly admit, unlikely to really do anything, but go ahead anyway...to each his own.

Separately, the term "Christian" is being used too loosely in this entire debacle. I think it's more appropriate to call them "Evangelicals" or "Charismatic Christians". To simply lump all christians with these nut-jobs is rather unfair. There is a great deal of tolerance amongst the mainstream christian churches, i.e. catholics, anglicans, methodists, lutherans cos their doctrines and beliefs are not based on one man, i.e. ONE pastor who happens to be a good orator, but have been developed for centuries. So please, lets separate the wolves in sheep's clothing from the sheep.

Anonymous said...

Is the word "christian" the latest vulgar word on the streets?

That if my views are shaped by my "christian" beliefs, I am to be guarded against, that my views should be discounted?

By the same logic, why should the views of a secularist be taken seriously, since it is also tainted by "secularist" values?

Are "secularists" so intolerant of Christians?

Anonymous said...

The DBS credit card service

Mr Wang is not promoting "hate and venom". If his blog has 0 reader, it still is his opinion. I read his blog objectively and knowing the leaked emails from TSM, there is an optimal way to response.
If the country forced NS down your throat, leave the bloody country, just like many talented Singaporeans have done over the years.
If DBS credit card service has been hijacked by narrow-minded extremists (eye-popping evidence from the Focus-on-the-family saga and this Aware saga), leave DBS credit card service.
As simple as that. Period.

Anonymous said...

The silence of the moderate Christians is deafening. They are letting the evangelicals, the fundies muddy the good name of Christ. Christianity used to stand for progress, a move away from superstition and horrible traditions that broke the human spirit. Now, they are the oppressors. All in less than twenty years! When the churches started preaching against traditional Chinese culture (like what you said on burning rosewood furniture, no dragons, no traditional Chinese medicine, no chigung), I knew it was bad.

Are the moderate Christians so scared that they are viewed as 'less christian' than the fundies they don't speak out? But their voice of inclusiveness, brotherhood and love needs to be heard in public.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Wang,

By all means, cancel your DBS credit cards if you want to. Banks in Singapore issue way too many credit cards anyway. It's a pain to keep track of them, especially if you have to keep calling them to waive the annual fees.

But I don't quite understand the need to make an explicit link between the ongoing AWARE saga and DBS. Isn't this setting a bad precedent? As someone pointed out, if enough people take exception to the views expressed in a blog, what's to stop them from lobbying the blogger's employer to take action? I'm not sure we want to go down this road... seems like this is descending to something akin to a personal attack against someone's rice bowl.

Anonymous said...

To Anon@4.40am:

I agree with Mr Wang's approach in this blog post, he has created a forum for the discussion of this issue. Though you would argue that he has not been 100% objective, there's perfectly nothing wrong with him expressing his own view on this. If you want objective reporting, go read the newspaper and not an individual's blog.

As with Mr Wang, I was neutral about the new Exco, as they had legitimately taken power. I also felt that the old Exco were sore losers and that was the root cause of all this.

However, when Dr Thio appeared on the front page of the national newspapers on Friday espousing her 'principles', it put a different light on what had actually happened and is extremely alarming.

This is what I gleaned from Dr Thio (and because of her admission that she is 'Feminist Mentor', her new Exco must share these):
- she is clearly anti-gay: to her, it's not enough for homosexuality to be a 'neutral' word, it needs to be labelled as 'negative'
- she has no clue about homosexuality: she thinks gays are 'in pain' and suffered abuse from their parents in the past
- she is a christian fundamentalist: her very intolerant views on homosexuality and her militant actions in taking over AWARE do not represent the views and actions of mainstream Christianity. Jesus didn't like the Romans nor the Pharisees, but he didn't ask his disciples to storm the temple and orchestrate a coup (despite his power to do so). Instead he told his disciples to leave the powers-that-be alone and sort themselves out, since their kingdom is in heaven and not on earth.
- there's something sinister in how she planned this: reading the leaked email as well as her press conference admission, this was carefully planned. Moreover, she also said that she 'cannot surface'. Why? If what she is doing is above-board and altruistic?

One is entitled to his own (even very strong) views and convictions. However, when these views and convictions are espoused by a national or quasi-national organisation, which discriminates against one section of society (whether deliberately or by consequence), then this has no place in multi-cultural Singapore.

tiredman said...

Isn’t rather strange that when performing a public service, can evolved into a religious issue? How come Christianity turn out to be involved in this saga?
I would not encourage any woman in within my family to get involved with such organization that has such practice. Any public related organization should be “free” from religious influence.
From what I feel, this saga has turn out to be a religion aggressively wanting to increase its sphere of influence within a country and I think it is not healthy.

Anonymous said...

"That if my views are shaped by my "christian" beliefs, I am to be guarded against, ....., why should the views of a secularist be taken seriously, since it is also tainted by "secularist" values?"


You are not making sense. If a racist say : "my views are shaped by my racist beliefs. By the same logic, why should the views of non racists be taken seriously?"

so anyone with any stupid and discriminative view, we have to listen?

Its precisely because your view is a discriminatory view, that everyone is so up against on. What's next? lopping off the head of infiedels because the holy book says so?

Anonymous said...

Just get lost, Mr Wang! You are a load of high-sounding hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

Since quite a number have confessed sending in an online feedback to DBS about Josie's conduct. Would those persons please post the reply from DBS if you do get them, that is, if it happens. Somehow, I do not think DBS is going to bother replying to each & everyone personally.

Probably just a cookie cutter acknowledgment reply.

Josie mentioned sometime last week in the press that she got one critical letter sent to her employer. She said just ONE only. So now, presumably she would have more than ONE. So, Josie, have fun reading them when DBS management passes them to you.

Anonymous said...

There is little or no tolerance at all for non-christians working in christian-based organisations.
About 40 years ago, my friend, a Catholic,worked in a government hospital where the head was a protestant and my friend was asked in no uncertain terms, to attend his (i.e. the boss') church for perks in his work. He attended for a year but decided to stick to his Catholic faith. He ended not having promotion and not awarded a scholarship that went to his boss' wife and other collegues who attended his boss' church.
I thought things have changed for the better until recently a friend who told me that he was called by the management of a christian-based nursing home and told that he was considered for promotion but on the condition that he converted to christianity. He refused and later he resigned.

Anonymous said...

If the so-called moderates do not come out to denounce what they call "evangelists" in public, then we have to assume that they have neither the guts nor the clout to do it.

Therefore, it falls to the secularists, atheists, agnostics, and humanists to do the job.

In short, my message to the moderates is...

Come out and denounce them, or please step out of the way!

Anonymous said...

Hi All,

Please find this facebook group calling for the dismissal of Josie Lau - Log into Facebook and search 'Josie Lau' under groups.

Plse note that DBS Chairman is informed about this group so every group member counts!!

Thanks! Remember - religious extremism should never be tolerated in Singapore

Agagooga said...

"If the so-called moderates do not come out to denounce what they call "evangelists" in public, then we have to assume that they have neither the guts nor the clout to do it.

Therefore, it falls to the secularists, atheists, agnostics, and humanists to do the job.

In short, my message to the moderates is...

Come out and denounce them, or please step out of the way! "

Translation: "Don't stop the lynch mob if you don't want to stop it"

Way to go.

Anonymous said...

if the school material in question are controvasial, shouldn't they complain to moe or mda than to plot a sneaky takeover?

Luther

Anonymous said...

I'm really disgusted that you guys are showing so little respect for our heroines josie and her master ... ooops, i mean mentor, Dr Thio.

Although i'm a doctor and not a lawyer, which is very sad, now that i realized how much i'm missing out from Dr Thio's invaluable mentoring, may i urge all of you prodigal sons to repent from your ungodly stupidity and salute our Feminist Mentor and give her your fullest support.

It's very true what Dr Thio's mentees said about Dr Thio, that AWARE is not large enough for someone of such profound intellect, which is why you ingrates should be grateful that she is willing to honour AWARE by taking up this Feminist Mentorship without charging you fools a single cent.

May i humbly suggest to Feminist Mentor Dr Thio to consider taking over the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and all the mainstream Mental Health Organizations in every nation so that she can fulfil her grand and Godly dream of turning "homosexuality" into a bad word rather than a neutral word.

Then all of her fans and supporters can hijack the Nobel prize selection committee afterwards so that we can award her the Nobel Prize for Medicine in recognition of her extraordinary contributions to Mental Health and Psychiatry, which is a long overdue award for someone who has counselled so many lesbians and made the earth-shaking discovery about the REAL cause of lesbianism.

I also urge DBS to consider promoting Josie to become the CEO so that she wouldn't look too small standing beside our towering intellectual giant, Feminist Mentor Dr Thio.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it, in today Singapore, who cares about integrity & honesty?

Jimmy Mun said...

I dont know Thio Su Mien or Josie Lau, and they are probably as evil as some of you guys claim. But I am not going persecute them for thought crimes. In fact, you should be careful not to make a martyr out of Josie Lau, or turn this into a conflict between Christians and non-Christians.

If you have a problem with FOTF or the Christian Taliban in general, that is a separate issue.

The old AWARE was an organisation that wanted to portray women as victims to grab power in the name of gender equality. Funny they didnt think there is a need for equality in serving national service.

The old guard ran AWARE into a group that can be decided by 30 members. The old AWARE was already irrelevant before the AGM.

If someone else wants to rejuvenate the group, would you expect them to get things done without seeking ideological allies?

The new AWARE is a lot like SDP. A group utterly humiliated by MSM and will never be taken seriously.

Why would anybody want to bother to take further actions against them? To make an example out of them as a warning against future offenders? Does it remind you of some other group?

Anonymous said...

It really boils down to how one perceive such issues to be. For me, the agenda of such take over is by itself consider 'malicious': To impose something which they believed in onto someone who doesn't believe so. That what makes me think that the christians are all hypocrite to start off with because I could establish such casual comment and link it to christians that I have known in real life.

If the new exco remains in power even after the 2nd may general meeting, then I can predict that the association will be run under a christian-fundamentalist driven unit. It will no longer be an association run on females ideals but rather, an organization that run on christian-female ideals. There will no longer be representation of non-christian ideals as people who don't agree with the exco will be "terminated" due to insubordination. This is really ridiculous.

To talk about respect for other people's religion.. Its all talk but no action being put forth by our christian counterparts. Its up to a point whereby my mutual respect for christian have slowly and gradually evolved into disgust and hatred. What's the point of preaching something they can't even perform, hypocrites?

jd said...

if anyone thinks that this is akin to a personal attack against someone's rice bowl. It is not, it is a way to show our disapproval and concern on how she uses her power or job to push for religious agenda. It is just to indicate to DBS that we are not comfortable to have our money managed by her. She can find herself another rice bowl elsewhere if the bank decided that she should go.

T__T said...

I don't think it's a good idea to cancel your card for this... After all the bank did announce that they do not approve of what Josie did.

Anonymous said...

All Singaporeans better be warned !

I think if we are not careful, one morning we will wake up to find that Dr. Thio has replace LKY as Minister Mentor, her daughter would have replaced LHL as the new PM, Josie Lau is in now charge of Temasek/GIC and her husband Alan Chin has replaced Wong Kan Seng as the Deputy PM.

All they need is just a couple of Ministers in the cabinet who happened to be Christians attending the same church.

Anyway, that's how we work in Singapore, isn't it.

Anonymous said...

Alan Wong said... "Especially the cabinet is already full of Christian Ministers."

If you are ignorant, please shut your trap. Take a look at http://www.cabinet.gov.sg/CabinetAppointments/index.htm The two highest profile Christians were George Yeo and Tony Tan. The latter has retired. And let me remind you - the Catholic George was one of the most vocal in pushing for the Casino. ;p

Anon April 26 12:52 said .. "It will no longer be an association run on females ideals but rather, an organization that run on christian-female ideals."

Do you know anything about christian-female ideals? Are you sure they are all bad? For example, the Book puts the man as the head of the household. If you are a man, are you sure you don't want that? Or you prefer the old AWARE notion of gender equality? ;p

Anonymous said...

Sorry folks.
I hate gays so I am going to get a DBS card for all members of my family.
Way to go Josie.
As for the old AWARE members, they should read the fables on sour grapes!

Mr Wang Says So said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr Wang Says So said...

I will shortly be closing the comment section for this blog post. Thereafter no further comments will be published. I think that by now, all sides have already had a fair chance to express their views on this blog.

My own closing remarks:

1. I think that Josie Lau is ALREADY very prepared to lose her job. Remember, she had already gone through the FOTF episode with her employer last year. This time round, DBS has again expressly warned her. Yet Josie has chosen to breach the DBS Staff Code of Conduct. Getting sacked must be a possibility that Josie has already considered, and a risk that she's willing to run. She probably thinks it will earn her extra brownie points for entry into heaven.

2. What was the main point of my post? It was that the new ExCo had executed their takeover in a manner that reflected a lack of integrity, honesty and transparency. This is my own view - you may agree or disagree. I should add that I would not like to see any significant civil group in Singapore run by leaders with a track record of a lack of integrity. What about you?

3. I have suggested that readers who share my views should terminate their DBS credit cards. How many readers will actually do so? I do not know - perhaps a small number, perhaps a big one. Either way, it's just a suggestion. Readers will make their own decisions as to what they want to do. I think however that terminating the cards will be an effective way to make a point.

4. Some readers have expressed their view, the old Aware was not very effective or did not stand up for what they should have (for example, some NS-related issues were mentioned). This argument is irrelevant. Whatever shortcomings the old Aware may have had, this does not make the behaviour of the new Exco members and their fellow collaborators any less wrong.

5. I have gay friends. I know gay people. I do not consider them abnormal. I believe that they deserve as much love, respect and compassion as any other human beings. I believe that Jesus would agree with me.

6. I do not think that all Christians are against gays (after all, some Christians are gays, and some churches have even had gay pastors who were staunchly supported by their congregations). Neither do I think that all Christians would approve of the brand of ethics which the new Exco members displayed, when they invaded Aware.

7. My vision of an ideal society is one where people truly respect each other's freedom. I see fundamentalist religion as a far greater threat to society, than homosexuality could ever possibly be.