tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post2075010881465429054..comments2024-03-19T18:44:15.041+08:00Comments on Little Stories: Ahh, the Foolish MassesGilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-39551599449487166732007-06-07T09:09:00.000+08:002007-06-07T09:09:00.000+08:00Sze Meng,You directed us from Mr Wang's blog to yo...Sze Meng,<BR/><BR/>You directed us from Mr Wang's blog to yours in reply to my question:<BR/><BR/>"It might be interesting if anyone has any idea the percentage of people from super "uncomfortable" family backgrounds and yet have made it to the top echelons of society. Would it be 0%? You think?"<BR/><BR/>Thanks for that. I think you echo my sentiment. There is not much upward mobility in Singapore. But then, this world is like that. No? America might be better, or it might not.<BR/><BR/>PS Your blog does not allow anonymous postings, so I posted here instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-32003106386579146152007-05-31T07:31:00.000+08:002007-05-31T07:31:00.000+08:00http://szemeng.blogspot.com/2005/07/president-scho...http://szemeng.blogspot.com/2005/07/president-scholarships.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-30294352919013753832007-05-26T16:15:00.000+08:002007-05-26T16:15:00.000+08:00"Would you care to disclose whether you yourself c..."Would you care to disclose whether you yourself came from a rich family?"<BR/><BR/>Oh, not rich. Not poor, but not rich. Comfortable is the right word, I would say.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for replying. It might be interesting if anyone has any idea the percentage of people from super "uncomfortable" family backgrounds and yet have made it to the top echelons of society. Would it be 0%? You think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-24287138442157872752007-05-25T14:15:00.000+08:002007-05-25T14:15:00.000+08:00Shuwen, you might want to consider contributing to...Shuwen, you might want to consider contributing to this instead of duplicating effort.<BR/><BR/>http://diodati.omniscientx.com/sg-finaid/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-92117179383476787842007-05-25T09:25:00.000+08:002007-05-25T09:25:00.000+08:00Hi Mr Wang, I read Sg blogs instead of the ST for ...Hi Mr Wang, I read Sg blogs instead of the ST for more interesting social and political commentaries. If there are students out there who are interested in finding out more about alternative funding sources for an overseas education (graduate school), they can email me shwern@yahoo.comShuwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672838221814031875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-80144319721057260812007-05-24T23:55:00.000+08:002007-05-24T23:55:00.000+08:00I was sceptical of the survey results when I first...I was sceptical of the survey results when I first read them, but is it not possible to give them a more charitable reading? Suppose the following: a person can be Hardworking or Lazy, and can come from a Wealthy or Poor family.<BR/><BR/>Would one agree with the following statements--in Singapore:<BR/><BR/>A1) Given Wealthy family, a Hardworking person is more likely to succeed than a Lazy person.<BR/>A2) Given Poor family, a Hardworking person is more likely to succeed than a Lazy person.<BR/>B1) Given a person is Hardworking, the one from the Rich family is more likely to succeed than the one from the Poor family.<BR/>B2) Given a person is Lazy, the one from the Rich family is NOT more likely to succeed than the one from the Poor family.<BR/><BR/>Given that the effects of Hardworking-ness is unambiguous, and that the effects of Wealthiness is ambiguous (the Lazy Rich person may be materially comfortable, but is likely not to be successful if we think about success as "making it in life" because the Lazy Rich has not "made" anything, but merely been "given" everything), can't we say that hard work is a more significant determinant of success, than wealth? Or is there some fault with my logic here?Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00399681967766135840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-49219480961047316522007-05-24T23:36:00.000+08:002007-05-24T23:36:00.000+08:00amendment.I don't mean more HDB flats costing more...amendment.<BR/><BR/>I don't mean more HDB flats costing more than private apartments.<BR/><BR/>I meant nowadays some HDB flats are costing more than private apartments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-22624696643402644772007-05-24T23:34:00.000+08:002007-05-24T23:34:00.000+08:00There are more HDB Flats that cost more than Priva...There are more HDB Flats that cost more than Private apartments.<BR/><BR/>Some 5 rooms in Bukit Merah, Toa Payoh, EM in Bishan is over half a million.<BR/><BR/>Many ECs are still below 500k.<BR/><BR/>I agree with what PC has mentioned.<BR/><BR/>So these stats may not totally be that meaningful.<BR/><BR/>Also tieing the no. of PSC scholars to Family Gross income of $5000 may not be that meaningful as well.<BR/><BR/>Chances of someone with a gross income of 5k staying in HDB flats is extremely high. <BR/><BR/>Even our dear Mr Wang stays in HDB.<BR/><BR/>So what does this says about the stats?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-69761318278144878132007-05-24T22:57:00.000+08:002007-05-24T22:57:00.000+08:00To quote one of the comments on the other post", w...To quote one of the comments on the other post<BR/><BR/>", well it sounds quite logical. you see, parents who are smart are usually more capable which makes them easier to climb up the social ladder. Good brain = better in studies = higher education = good job = faster promotions = richer family. <BR/><BR/>When the genes pass on to their kids, it's no wonder that the rich make up the larger percentage of the scholars. <BR/><BR/>Where will you find doctor parents living in an old dilapidated hut? If huts do exist in Singapore. "<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, ricker students can afford more tuition, spending less time on transport by being chauffered about.<BR/>Its quite common sense that a disproportionate amount of students come from richer household. Its social capital.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-26154211444393012172007-05-24T16:55:00.000+08:002007-05-24T16:55:00.000+08:00"Would you care to disclose whether you yourself c...<B>"Would you care to disclose whether you yourself came from a rich family?"</B><BR/><BR/>Oh, not rich. Not poor, but not rich. Comfortable is the right word, I would say.Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-56704778249924213692007-05-24T13:34:00.000+08:002007-05-24T13:34:00.000+08:00What WF is guilty of is to read too much into the ...What WF is guilty of is to read too much into the survey in order to make a political point. Perhaps the political motive is to serve the PAP by downplaying all the fallouts of the "elite" debate that has been slowly but surely gaining momentum.<BR/><BR/>In essence, what student would not say that hard work and not family connections is important? A student look around him and see that he has to study hard to get an A in O-level mathematics. Daddy being an MP will not gaurantee him one. That's simply common sense.<BR/><BR/>(hehe, the real issue in this case is whether family connection will get your son to an elite school to begin with, or in the case of LKY dylexic grandson, to schools not normally accessible to Singaporeans. But I digress).<BR/><BR/>The error made by WF is to try to link the students perception to the concept of elitism. The link is suspect at best. The students were not commenting on elistism.<BR/><BR/>This is like asking the question to students: "Do you want to have a girlfriend or boyfriend (preferably not of the same sex as you)?" And if they mostly say yes, we conclude erroneously that our fertility rate is going to increase, or if they say no, our fertility rate is going to drop we must import in more FT. The issues are not related, even if they do share common denominators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-40976245274559117662007-05-24T13:14:00.000+08:002007-05-24T13:14:00.000+08:00"The govt will, through their pet media, always re..."The govt will, through their pet media, always resolve to print favourable statistics to sway the public; which govt will not do likewise?" <BR/><BR/>The British government and the BBC.<BR/><BR/>The British government funds the BBC (even though the BBC is profitable already), but the government basically adopts a hands off approach for the editorials and programming of the BBC, which is seen as independent and can be (and has been) critical of the government or even the opposition.<BR/><BR/>It is common to see our limited experiences and what we have been constantly told by the PAP -- ie, we must have a nation building press, and that the press must be accountable to the government -- as "normal" and something to be expected around the developed world. But often is the case, other countries have done just the opposite and got on pretty well. The above is just one example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-59706336905111057542007-05-24T12:58:00.000+08:002007-05-24T12:58:00.000+08:00Mr Wang,Would you care to disclose whether you you...Mr Wang,<BR/><BR/>Would you care to disclose whether you yourself came from a rich family?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-12770236989618671562007-05-24T09:46:00.000+08:002007-05-24T09:46:00.000+08:00"Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey im..."Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions." - Niccolo MachiavelliAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-17922033554704452242007-05-24T09:27:00.000+08:002007-05-24T09:27:00.000+08:00I believe Warren was commenting on the results of ...I believe Warren was commenting on the results of the Ken Kwek survey, which students participated in. When I was a student, I also believed that hard work, ability to do well etc etc determines whether you do well in life or otherwise. Of course, this belief got shakier and shakier as I climbed up the academic ladder, now that I am working, I'll say that hard work and ability gets you places, but an able person who works hard AND had family wealth probably gets further.Euterpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652997589985907136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-57577870683569055512007-05-24T08:19:00.000+08:002007-05-24T08:19:00.000+08:00When asked, someone commented "I dont insult my in...When asked, someone commented "I dont insult my intelligence by reading Straits Times".<BR/><BR/>For me, that summed up the paper in one line. Even today i wonder how people read such an openly biased and stupid paper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-40322432784545903132007-05-24T04:06:00.000+08:002007-05-24T04:06:00.000+08:00Scholarships are not just for poor people which is...Scholarships are not just for poor people which is why there is the mentioning of meritocracy, because scholarships are for <B>all</B> people in society who deserves them.<BR/><BR/>Society is not just about being charity.<BR/><BR/>So who is really foolish to think that scholarships are only for the poor?<BR/><BR/>Half of scholarships goes to poor people, I say that is pretty fair and balanced distribution.<BR/><BR/>About the definition of being rich. Being truely rich is not needing to work at all to support one's lifestyle. Even if one now makes alot of money a month but still lacks enough money to retire, he is not truely rich period. <BR/><BR/>Working class blue and white collars people are not rich socialites, they are still workers. Until one has made enough enough money that one does not need to work any longer, he is then truely rich, monetary sense of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-57495260923931120052007-05-24T03:31:00.000+08:002007-05-24T03:31:00.000+08:00I am not an expert in psychology, but I recall rea...I am not an expert in psychology, but I recall reading about attribution theory many years back. Most people tend to attribute their achievements to personal hard work rather than external factors, such as family wealth or luck. It is silly to conduct such survey in the first place as there are inherent bias.<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree that coming from good family background ensure a higher chances of success in scholastic achievements or even future career success. That's life, we see that everywhere. My only issue is how the press keep trying to overplay this meritocracy slant when it is clearly not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-3277785663072223232007-05-23T23:26:00.000+08:002007-05-23T23:26:00.000+08:00i think in most societies, offspring of affluent/i...i think in most societies, offspring of affluent/intelligent/influential parents are inevitably much more likely to succeed in life than those of parents otherwise. various reasons are applicable: genes, nurtures and connections etc etc. that is why 100% meritocracy is 100% bullshit. to really level the playing field in sg, the gabramen needs to dispense much more assistance to lower income families than it does presently.<BR/><BR/>think magical figures of $290 and $XXX (obscene) million, and you will see that pap is shameless in trumpeting meritocracy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-87368755769653914392007-05-23T21:47:00.000+08:002007-05-23T21:47:00.000+08:00Well, working from the assumption that intelligent...Well, working from the assumption that intelligent and hard working people earn more money then the parents of the PSC scholars are more likely to be hard-working and intelligent than the rest of the population right? And there is a correlation between the intelligence of the parents and the intelligence of the kid. Also if the parents are intelligent and hard working they are more likely to provide a stimulative environment for the kid, thus the kid is more likely to be hard-working and intelligent coming from a richer home. Then there is of course additional factors like more money spent on tutors and the like. So the fact that richer kids are more likely to get a scholarship doesnt mean it's not meritocratic...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-19102155689220165132007-05-23T17:28:00.000+08:002007-05-23T17:28:00.000+08:00The most important factor is luck.The most important factor is luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-52012492666966621632007-05-23T17:21:00.000+08:002007-05-23T17:21:00.000+08:00"Warren is only saying that when he interviewed th..."Warren is only saying that when he interviewed the SPH scholarship applicants, most of them cannot afford to go overseas on their own."<BR/><BR/>No, actually he said that they told him they couldn't afford it. Not the same thing. <BR/><BR/>I'm quite prepared to believe him. I just believe that if he wants to substantiate his point, he should provide stats that show that his scholarship applicants are from middle and low income families, not rely on them telling him so. <BR/><BR/>After all, what person in the scholarship interview is going to say "Yes, I can afford it actually"?Mezzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12832423014086477073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-51322983542376476692007-05-23T16:53:00.000+08:002007-05-23T16:53:00.000+08:00It's simple.Any form of financial assistance or be...It's simple.<BR/><BR/>Any form of financial assistance or benefit given without a means test will tend to attract people who do not actually need it, but are eligible nevertheless. With brand-name education being such a key to social and economic success, people naturally will try to get a hold of any financing to get what they want.<BR/><BR/>I think it is fine for pure merit scholarships, as long as it is balanced with means-and-merit grants as well. And I think Mr. Wang has said it before. Moving forward and moving forward together are two different things, but they need not be mutually exclusive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-27382939033883004892007-05-23T16:30:00.000+08:002007-05-23T16:30:00.000+08:00"The govt will, through their pet media, always re...<B>"The govt will, through their pet media, always resolve to print favourable statistics to sway the public; which govt will not do likewise?" </B><BR/><BR/>Heheh. How about govts which are not majority shareholders of the largest media cororates in their country and which do not appoint ex-government ministers to be the Chairman of such media corporates?Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-46492177606546914972007-05-23T16:27:00.000+08:002007-05-23T16:27:00.000+08:00Now, boys, don't fight. Click on the link I provid...Now, boys, don't fight. Click on the link I provided and you'll see that the other indicator used is household income. PSc scholars also come from households with higher income.Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.com