Last Tuesday, the ST Forum featured a letter on the topic of citizenship and Singaporean identity. The letter referred to the Olympic silver medal which our foreign-talent imports had recently won for Singapore. The writer, Mr Mark Wong, made his key point as follows:"We have every right to celebrate our paddlers' success in the Olympics and they duly deserve it. But despite all the controversy surrounding the origins of our players, one cannot deny that it would have been a more empathic celebration if Singaporeans brought home the medal rather than Singapore citizens."Mark drew a distinction between being a Singapore citizen, and being Singaporean. He tried to say that citizenship is just a kind of formality, consisting of official paperwork and the issuance of a pink card. In contrast, a genuine Singaporean identity is something more profound, more important, and relates to a deeper sense of belonging:
ST Aug 19, 2008
Singaporeans and Singapore citizens: There's a big difference
IT IS time to put forth the argument that being a Singapore citizen is not the same as being Singaporean. One can be born here but one's heart is not. If the only thing linking someone who spends most of his life in another country to his birthplace is his relatives, then there is little meaning behind his national identity. People talk about 'true-blue' Singaporeans but are usually stumped for words when one asks them to define the term.
A feeling of identity is defined and nurtured by one's social affiliations, having immersed in its culture, history and people. I consider myself Singaporean for the following reasons:
- Having friends who suffered with me during national service.
- Having friends who struggled with me under the education system.
- Eating, celebrating, talking, learning, suffering, serving and being served by Singaporeans around me ....
I understand Mark's point, but I could not help but see some sad, unintended irony in his letter.
Mark gives three main reasons why he considers himself Singaporean. The first reason has something to do with "suffering". The second reason has something to do with "struggling". And the third reason, like the first, also has something to do with "suffering".
We might summarise as follows - the hallmarks of a Singaporean are suffering and struggle.
That sounds quite unappealing, to me at least. If Mark's definition is correct, then I would really prefer not to be a true Singaporean. Being a Singaporean citizen will be fine. By nature, I'm just not masochistic.
87 comments:
btw, as of right now, all the quarter finalists in table tennis women are from China.
Citizenship is subsumed by talent. This Olympic Games is by China for China ;)
It is just like Singapore is being replaced by 'foreign talent' for all sorts of reasons, the main one is the 'over-success' of Stop at Two and Graduate Mother engineering .... and rapid aging
I also just saw Tao Li on TV, she sounds like a Singaporean - so she is being localised (somehow). Maybe her English is 'suffered'
i came across this blog which had a link to a video clip of Li Jia Wei's interview in a show about playing in Beijing Games. When mentioned about her goals in the games, she made no mention about her being a Singaporean (Xin Jia Po Ren), but rather mentioned as a Chinese (as in Zhong Guo Ren, Bei Jin Ren), playing on her "territory" and "motherland". (http://fireopal82.blogspot.com/2008/08/identity-crisis.html) *and incidentally, she let the singapore flag touch the floor during the opening ceremony*
perhaps this is why there is an emotional debate about Singaporean and Singapore citizen. it's not so much about "suffering or struggling", but whether in the first place you identify Singapore as a home or Singapore just as a stepping stone to be called a singaporean.
When u hold a pink IC, it is already a disadvantage in many ways.
I think there are 3 main root causes: a small country, no original products or intellectual ppty (sorry Creative Technologies dun quite make it) and the philosphy of PAP or LKY ... fascist engineering.
If u dun hold a pink IC, u can always go back to motherland to claim back, I supposed. I predict NS will become unnecessary when two thirds of young adults surveyed (statistically) plan to retire overseas.
All the problems we are having could have been foreseen from many years ago. It is ironic now that PAP is once again attempting to reverse the population problem i.e. they realise that there won't be enough Singaporeans to man SAF and Civil Service and do the voting.
I am sorry, btw, I also want to clarify if I am not wrong abt 'foreign talent':
After WWII, USA 'poached' foreign talent from devasted Europe.
What can I say .... we bought too much into the idea of nationhood, like I said, starting with to serve NS and nostalgia of old Singapore.
What's gone is gone .... my problem is I wished PAP were more transparent and direct to Singaporeans. I guess this is the 'affective divide' thingy.
With globalization, nationhood doesn't count very much. LKY said as much a few years ago. This society is basically torn apart across generations and across demographics. Maybe it's just too bad, or maybe it is not too bad.
As I said previously before, whatever it is, it is far better to take stock and prepare for the future .. as independently as possible.
In terms of relationships and values, u choose to do whatever is necessary and desirable to be a less economic animal and a more genuine giving person, giving to other people of yr talent and time.
'Suffering' is putting in yr own effort for a worthwhile objective paying for the (anticipated and unanticipated) costs that come with it. In other words, dun 'suffer' for no good reason.
I hope I dun make the above sound too easy or trivia. To each his own.
China's table-tennis exponents are being exported round the world.
They are grabbed by the West as well as unknown Carri bean countries if you had watched the Games.
What more if you had watched other events you would also have seen European teams carrying blacks imports.
Such is globalisation if the far-sighted wants to bring glory to their nations.
Btw, did you know that Malaysia practises meritocracy in sports? The only medal recepient has just been crowned a Datuk!
George says:
Mr Wang,
Being an influential blogger, it is important that you state your stand on this issue unequivocally.
More precisely, do you think it is acceptable for a country to import FTs to win medals at the Olympics? This is evidently the case as far as TT is concerned.
What is the value of medals won in this manner?
Can we hear your views?
How come Singapore can only attract China table tennis talents only? Why hah? Is it because their original countries don't take better care of them in this sport? China score golds in many sports but it seems none want to be attracted to represent Singapore. Even $$$ and citizenship no good enough is it?
Frankly I don't really feel that proud when one of the players who score a silver came to Singapore only just last year.
Given the wealth in developed countries I believe come 2012 in London Jamaican runners will bring glory to the West/US in track & field. Just watch.
I think the point is simple: these talents cannot get into the 1st team; rather than waste their time and opportunity, they 'emigrate' to represent other countries. Singapore, like any other country, is just exploiting the opportunity for national glory and social engineering i.e. hopefully it spurs locals and these talents settle down in Singapore and get localised and transfer their genes into the local genepool.
Hving said all these, I must also remind myself that there are other countries with similar population size as Singapore like Norway and Finland etc that have shown that overall they can do well. Singapore knowingly or not, is just fast tracking as usual. Instant maggie mee.
PS: Singapore Kindness Movement point man said Singapore will need many more years to instil kindness in other words, such attributes cannot be fast tracked.
So it means that foreign talent can be fast tracked i.e. they must have 'suffered and struggled' in their homeland somehow to begin with. Singapore is just benefitting, just like Middle East is benefitting from people from SIA and CAAS for example.
In other words, if you are good enough, go global, dun stay local. It doesn't hv to be physical - there is always the Internet if you hv some good idea - though it might be necessary and easier in most cases. Plenty of US universities are setting up 'campuses' in Dubai.
Personally I don't care about all such competitions, be it in sports, business , schooling or otherwise. I don't think it is necessary for human being to work so hard and progress so fast. I guess the faster you go the quicker you will bring this earth to an end (for human being). I hope the world can progress to a point where people can all live in leisure and not having to fight so hard all the time. That way, we will not need to worry about having FT's.
what is there to be so proud about?
the medallist is not even a singaporean!
i can't even get the point of sending non-singaporean to represent singapore in the olympics.
is it just for the sake of getting medals?
what does the medal truly mean to singapore and singaporean then?
to me, it is not singapore's.
attracting (or more like buying) athletes from other country is a disgrace.
i'd rather not get any medals than get one that is artificial.
to a non-singaporean like me, it simply reflects singapore's desperation.
watever it is, one must hv some feel or feeling aka passion in any pursuit whether it is leisure or pursuing excellence ....
otherwise, it is just apathetic .. as the HongKongers put it in cantonese: 'no feeeeling', or in Sg term aka affective divide - impose n rationalize or ignore/act blur until the issue is dead - as dead as Mas Selamat
My question is:
How does the use of "Foreign Talents" (or mercenaries) in Olympics benefit the rest of Singaporeans?
(a) We can't claim these players are largely a product of Singapore, esp since one of these players came to Singapore merely a year ago.
(b) We also cannot claim that the foreign imports help spur the rest of Singaporean to excel in Sports. In fact, Singaporeans who aspire to represent their country in sports will probably be more disillusioned now.
How many of them still a "singaporean" 10 yrs from now?
Luther
"I hope the world can progress to a point where people can all live in leisure and not having to fight so hard all the time."
You mean you would like world peace? Haha. I would love to tio 1st prize TOTO.
"I hope the world can progress to a point where people can all live in leisure and not having to fight so hard all the time."
You mean you would like to see world peace? Haha. I would like to tio 1st prize TOTO.
The blame for the drought of Olympics medals in Singapore can be put squarely on the PAP government. In the 1970s if I remember correctly the philosophy of PAP was that sports were meant for the masses.
Anyone who tried to promote competitive sports to win metals would be smacked down (I think that was the term used). That is one of the main cause of the drought of medals in Olympics. So now we are trying to make up by importing foreign talents.
A relevant video
For more detailed discussions on this important topic, see:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/sunkopitiam/messages?msg=1235.1
Singapore Kopitiam:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/sunkopitiam/messages/
James says - "In other words, if you are good enough, go global, dun stay local. It doesn't hv to be physical . ."
Precisely. If one thinks one is good and the country just simply can't have you given the numbers, then go GLOBAL. That's what the Chinese are doing especially the table-tennis stars. They receive citizenship and then go and represent their new home countries.
It's win-win I believe. The spin-off for the host country is manifold. Obscured countries are now known to the world community; the international community would now ask for say, "Hey, whare's is this Singapore"; from unknown to known. It's certainly a plus. When I travel I can also life my head and join voices with the other winners to say my country is an Olympic winner now!
Btw, the world doesn't identify players per se. They will now say "SINGAPORE is a force to contend with in table-tennis!"
The same goes for our Biopolis with its FTs.
The US is what it is today is to no small extent due to the elite FTs, be it sports or science & technology, it has been able to absorb over the years.
assuming mr wang has correctly interpreted mr wong's statement as "a genuine Singaporean identity...relates to a deeper sense of belonging".
TODAY article on Aug 21, 2008 pg14 entitled - Singaporeans look overseas. it commented 63% Singaporeans have considered moving to another country for retirement.
conclusions:
-Singaporeans (in general) would have enough of "suffering" by the time they retire
-Singaporeans sense of belonging ends after a certain tolerance period.
despite being a Singaporean, i personally dont really feel a sense of belonging - because...females are spared from NS...?
i think the fact that li described herself as a beijing-ren speaks volume for itself.
globalisation in the sports arena, i suppose, is inevitable. however we need to ask ourselves if we shld really need to spend $$$$, literally top dollar compared to the rest of the world, in enticing them to come over.
when money is the main drive in bringing in medals, glory and honour my foot!
dear all,
I think this is an extension of how many Singaporeans view life - If one works hard, one will surely be successful. This Confucian ethos has been the advice that the parents/ government & teachers keep reinforcing in the young.
Is it so surprising that so many Singaporeans become cynical or resigned when said suffering and struggle not result in the promised dues?
k
The issue is not if the athletes are Singaporeans.
Rather, the issue is "Did Singapore earn this medal?"
Let's be thankful, and not resentful, and welcome our new citizens as they are contributing to the glory of Singapore.
Hopefully, Singapore will do better to develop a successful long termed sports program to nurture talents, be they born here or born elsewhere. That way, we can perhaps achieve some self respect.
Tao Li tries her best. Feng Tianwei tries her best.
Li Jia Wei gives up before the fight, and talks about being a China Chinese.
That is why public opinion is against Li Jia Wei. You can bet she'll return to China soon after retiring from competition.
To be suffering and struggling would than be a Singaporean. That is sad.
But could he have meant it as a rite of passage? Meaning a true-blue Singaporean is one that went through the Singaporean system when he is growing up. Not everyone admits that he had suffered and struggled along the way.
I will not fault the players bcaue of all the hard work, blood, sweat and tears they put into their training in Singapore to get where they are now. They were offered the opportunity to make a livelihood out of their sport and the chance to compete on the highest stage. Who would ot turn that down when such opportunities are scarce in their own countries.
BUT I do blame the Singapore Table Tennis Association, particularly the past regime, for its relentless pursuit of sporting glory at the expense of developing local talent. Shame on them!
Let's hope the new president will right this and give our budding juniors - and there are some really promising ones - the same sort of developmental opportunities that have been given to Li Jiawei and co.
Let's hope the same happens at the Singapore Badminton Association too.
Mark's statement is True That also why we must value our votes more.
Our votes can determine What kind of leadership we will have in the future.
Do we want a complacent, bochap, kiasu, kiasi and ungracious Millionaires Club who say our wages cannot be raised but convienently forgot about their own said Salary.
Or
A System where we can really vote out people(oppo, PAP, Whoever) who does not perform their Duties well.
The point for the latter is we can choose who to suffer from.
PS Not all PAPer General are good policy maker but not all are bad too. Keep the good ones,Throw out the rotten ones.
The best thing that can happen here is when We realise that we can choose.
Kevin said,
The issue is not if the athletes are Singaporeans.
Rather, the issue is "Did Singapore earn this medal?"
Let's be thankful, and not resentful, and welcome our new citizens as they are contributing to the glory of Singapore.
Hopefully, Singapore will do better to develop a successful long termed sports program to nurture talents, be they born here or born elsewhere. That way, we can perhaps achieve some self respect.
I agree wholeheartedly with Kevin. Feng Tianwei, Li Jiawei, Wang Yuegu and Tao Li were born in China, but it is Singapore that has put in a lot of effort to groom them. So I think Singapore truly deserves the medal. It is easy to be overly cynical about our government's policies and decisions in many areas (e.g., critisizing the government for taking the fast track by importing foreigners), but do we really have to let our political inclinations dictate every single aspect of our lives - our tastes and preferences, our likes and dislikes, etc.? Why not just enjoy the game while it lasts, and learn how to take pride in our naturalised Singaporean athletes? Other countries - including Portugal, USA and France amongst others - are also witnessing an influx of foreign-born sportsmen, but there is no contention among their citizens on whether they should be proud of achievements attained by these immigrants. You may say that their national teams are ultimately still largely composed of native players and that foreign-born representatives are only the minority, but I don't think it is of any relevance to this issue, because I believe that one's willingness and ability to embrace foreign talents are not determined by the ratio of the number of local players to that of imported athletes in one's national teams.
Mr Wong said,
Tao Li tries her best. Feng Tianwei tries her best.
Li Jia Wei gives up before the fight, and talks about being a China Chinese.
That is why public opinion is against Li Jia Wei. You can bet she'll return to China soon after retiring from competition.
Is it fair to say that Li Jiawei didn't try her best? Remember that it is also personal glory that she is fighting for. I don't think we are in any position to judge her merely based on her self-description as a Pekingese. Any professional player who has respect and passion for his or her own sport will give his or her best in every game - in the case of Li Jiawei, I personally feel that it doesn't matter how she views herself - whether as a Pekingese or a Singaporean. As long as she does her best in competitions while representing Singapore (I repeat that we can take pride in her achievements because we have invested a lot of sincere effort in grooming her), I think that is good enough.
Also, I don't see how her decision to return to China after retirement or not is germane to this issue in any sense. People have the right and the freedom to go wherever they wish to go. What is wrong with spending the rest of her days in China if she misses her homeland? If she really does return to China, or goes to some other country after retiring, it is her choice, and who are we to interfere, or to judge her based on her choice? Do you want to stay in Singapore all your life yourself, even if you have a high-paying job and great opportunities here (just as Li Jiawei does)?
If the World is globalized, then everyone represents the World and not a nation!
Please stop the 'globalization' crap, it will only happens on Doomsday.
patriot.
I just got off the bus and I was lucky enough to catch the telecast of Li Jia Wei’s match. I am no champion athlete; but I can recognize immense and suffocating pressure as a human being. The poor girl gave it her best shot. In those few precious minutes, Li gave Singapore what they call ‘hope’. Do not get me wrong, I am not implying that the achievements of Olympic champions are greater than that of the man in the street ; but that I find the need to speak up for these heroes that people actually label as ‘imports’ or ‘foreign talent’.
I refer to Mr. Mark Wong’s comment that “one cannot deny that it would have been a more empathic celebration if Singaporeans brought home the medal rather than Singapore citizens”. In making this statement, I assumed that Mr. Wong has perceived that there is some finality or fixed sense of definition to what others would call a ‘Singaporean Identity’. Nationalism, or nationalistic sentiments or patriotism or identification with one’s country or what-have-you, is ultimately an ideology and more importantly a social movement that focuses on the nation. The creation of a national identity is something that is always in its ebb and flow. It is perpetually in a state of fluidity and does not translate to any state of permanence. Things change in this world. Nations are carved out of history, that which is made by the struggles and efforts of a people.
And what defines a people? That girl is making history as we speak, or rather she spoke and made the statement that ‘I have fought and I was there, regardless of victory or defeat’. I think in those brief moments, she is more Singaporean than anyone of us, considering that she was carrying our standard on the world stage. Fair enough, it is table tennis and not some gladiatorial combat or life and death battle – merely career and future prospects (and a nation’s pride?)are at stake. But we must not forget that by doing so, she is furthering the cause of the national project they call a Singaporean identity. I swear that if TV mobile was installed at the front of the bus, I would’ve got to get off the bus in a car wreck because the driver would’ve been too distracted. In fact he was, but I will give him anonymity in order to protect his identify.
I think what we need to know here is to not pretend that we are some indigenous people that are innate or inherent to this place called Singapore. If we look further back in our history books, or into our memories (if one rote learns well enough), we would’ve realized that many of us have roots not too far back that are not entrenched in the soil that we are standing on. I have a British dad, though he is Chinese and had lived here since the 50’s and has attained citizenship since the early 90’s. Queen Elizabeth II besides being the sovereign of Great Britain is also known as Her Majesty to me. So what makes me Singaporean? It is the ongoing process of a 'national project', that which manifest itself in more ways than one.
There was one incident in my childhood that I have kept in my mind which has impacted me; I have retained it in my memory but today I believe it is time to share it with the world. There was a particular bus trip my Singaporean mum took me on when I was a kid and when we got onto the bus she paid our fares (good old days of carrying tons of coins rather than one card). And there was a one cent coin that she spotted on the ground; the bus was crowded but she went all the way through all that inconvenience to pick up that coin of seemingly little value and dropped it into the fare machine. And I asked my mum what she did all that, I mean it was just a one cent coin, and above all she didn’t even keep it. What she uttered the next moment will change my life forever – She took out another coin and pointed to the back side and said ‘Son, that’s because it has our coat of arms on it, and we should not let anyone step on it.’ That is the same coat of arms on my army beret which I once wore, and I am proud of it.
Let me tell you all something – a country is made up of small little acts like this, and together with bigger ones like what the athletes at the Olympics are doing right now. Every bit constitutes to an effort or a result they call identity. And every bit of effort should be commended rather than challenged. The national cause and the nation building project should be strengthened, renewed or at the very least supported by those who claim to have a ‘Singaporean Identity’, and those who seek to establish that utopian goal should not be the instigators of a ‘undermining movement’. George Orwell commented that ‘Sports is war minus the shooting’. The Olympics is the athletes’ personal arena; and also Singapore’s national project’s’ battlefield’. I believe that there is no greater disservice that one can do to his or her nation by drawing lines among the fraternity of supporters or participants alike.
I must emphasize again that a national identify, like a nation’s history will always be subject to socio economic or political or whatever challenges. It is the indomitable spirit of a people to unite under all circumstances that will allow the abstract entity called a country to prevail. Let us remember that Singapore do not only need to ‘exist today’ but for as long as we believe in it. It is how we believe in it and what do we believe of it that shapes our destiny.
With all due respect, Mr. Wang has his own opinions about being Singaporean, Mr. Wong has his own set of ideas and so do I. If we are all the same, something must be very wrong, or too right. Personally I do not want to live in a country with a one dimensional cultural and national goal; because history has proven that half the time, those conditions were set up through means of coercion and oppression or through institutions of delusion and deceit. This is a world hub, a crossroad of the world. But no means a small little red dot, my American neighbor thinks that we have the winning formula. So must we.
People will leave this place for all kinds of reason. Sometimes valid ones, and other times for reasons we deem as ‘for personal gain and interests’. I had another American friend who was a PR here who grew up with us and attended the same schools as we do. He is like one of us, in fact he was; but when 9/11 happened, it was during the time we were supposed to be called up for national service and he answered his call of duty to his country and enlisted as a marine and served a tour of duty in Iraq. I have the upmost respect for this soldier (still alive by the way), together with the many others who has served in the SAF with me because despite the occasional or rather incessant complaints coming from many of us who tend to be creatures of comfort, our time served (be mindful, not wasted) was real. NS is a contributing factor to a Singaporean Identity, take that away and national identity becomes more diminutive.
Of course there are others who left because they have good international connections and there is literally tons of money to be earned outside of Singapore. Let’s think abstract. Better economic prospects have been a great contributing factor to the shifting demographics of populations since the dawn of mankind. I think there is nothing to complain about when we are dealing with a…..5000 year problem? But I challenge the reader to think of it in this perspective – that the honors lies now with those who are still here. You define this country; you carry the torch of nationalism. Maybe another day from now, you may leave this place, and I will continue to sojourn onwards; or it could be the other way round. But the underlying principle is that one must be mindful of the consciousness of a ‘people’ of those who make still a difference. It is indifference to this attitude that breeds a sense of apathy and a growing feeling of helplessness. And more dangerously, indifference to those who can actually make a difference. We can bet or speculate that they may leave afterwards, but we cannot deny that bit of effort and result that exist empirically.
If everyone understood this, we can well be working onwards to a tomorrow that is brighter, through filled with challenges that which is the principle of life itself, but nevertheless a red and white one.
Daniel Chin
In light of my recent posts on education, what really struck me as quite noteworthy was Mark's listing the following as an element of Singaporean identity:
- You must have struggled through the education system.
It's truly sad, the way education is widely perceived as a painful, torturous process in Singapore ...
... instead of a wonderful time to grow, learn and develop.
Hi Daniel
You sound like another educated steady pom pi pi fella with brains and conviction to match. Got blog bo? Your reply very long le so at the risk of misquoting you ...
a country is made up of small little acts like this, and together with bigger ones like what the athletes at the Olympics are doing right now.
Precisely!
So could it be the intangibles that makes some locals reject LJW are among the very values that they valued the most? The values (whatever they are) that is used to define a nation?
NS is a contributing factor to a Singaporean Identity, take that away and national identity becomes more diminutive.
Chun bo? LKY neber serve NS but every1 also call him Mr Singapore leh.
NoName
Mr Wang
You should have a little mark on your left hand(bicep). You had suffered a painful (but pointless) jab.
You are Singaporean!
NoName
Mr Wang has taken a hot topic and hot issue but chose not to examine those issues but instead picked on certain words of Mark Wong.
It will be more useful if Mr Wang share with his readers how he feels about these "bought" athletes winning medals for Singapore, the foreign talent policy, the true agenda behind such policies, and whether such policies are beneficial to Singapore and Singaporeans in the long run.
Share share only, everyone has their own opinions, both politically correct ones and non-politically correct ones, no right or wrong. No shy lah.
Btw I agree totally with Mark Wong.
"We are born, so to speak, provisionally, it doesn't matter where; it is only gradually that we compose, within ourselves, our true place of origin, so that we may be born there retrospectively."
- Rainer Maria Rilke
At the heart of this debate is the central question: what makes a Singaporean?
Alas there is no one objective standard that everyone can agree on. We can of course take the easy way out and define a Singaporean as anyone who has taken up Singapore citizenship. But this ongoing debate within the context of the Olympics Table Tennis players shows that there is much more to national identity than a pink IC and red passport.
I venture to guess that one reason why the local born Singaporeans display their indignation and consternation over the importation of foreign talent is because to them, the easy issuance of citizenship cheapens the dignity and identity of being Singaporean. If every Einstein, Rafael Nadal, or Tiger Woods were to be given Singapore citizenship for the sake of national glory, the local born perceive that as having a dilutive effect on their 'Singaporeaness.'
Human beings being tribal in nature, tend to make comparisons to distinguish themselves from others. In some circumstances, it is done with the purpose of triumphantly underscoring superior parallels over outsiders. Think back to the 1936 Berlin Olympics where the Nazis utilised sport to push their Aryan supremacist line.
If we were to subscribe to the 'We Are The World' globalised collective, there would be no need for flags and anthems at the Olympics. Every 200 metre record broken would be celebrated by all humanity, not only the Jamaicans.
I have rather complicated views on this matter, it will take me too long to explain. Perhaps another time.
Very briefly, I have nothing against Li Jia Wei; I wish her well. But her silver medal in the Olympics personally gives me much less joy than, say, Joscelin Yeo's SEA Games medals ... even though the SEA Games is a much less significant event than the Olympics.
My real sympathies are with local table tennis players like Jenn Lim Pei Qi and Zena Sim. They are the real losers, overall.
What? You never heard of them? Click here for more details.
local means left behind ; STTA paprachute themselves to 'instant' glory ;( .... where got suffering. I was amused when I saw the photo-op of VIP supporters - hard to support someone when u dun hv any inkling of ties with her. It's like supporting David Beckham bcos he can bend the ball, never mind that he is not Singaporean. But here we appoint Singapore citizens like rubber stamping.
I kind of recall some of my own experiences dealing with the SSC and it's appendages. I may be talking out of my arse regarding this, but it seems that the results support my observations.
Apparently there's a lot of money politics involved, and the people sitting on the board are merely ticket punchers or business people with vested financial interests, with no real interest in the sports.
A good sports program takes more than a decade to develop, high levels of commitment and sponsorship. However, there is no consistency in their programs and plans are changed every few years. The typical solution to most of their problems was to throw money at it and fire the coach.
The UK is an excellent example. Less than a decade ago, they were a laughing stock in the sporting world outside of traditional English sports.
I share Mr Wang's sentiments to some extent. I have nothing against LJW, if i meet her on the street i will congratulate her on her achievements, smile say hello to her like a gracious host.
But do i share in the trumped up joy that our media has been shoving down my throat day in day out about the silver medal? I do not feel such joy at all and do not care about the victory. The silver medal victory is a hollow one and I cannot relate to that as well as say joscelin yeo's or ang peng siong's achievements.
I feel the danger about the foreign talent policy is that the Spore citizenship has been cheapened and nationhood undermined.
We are paying the price with no regret to have children.
Looks like fellow-sufferer(?) Mr Wang is more masochistic than he thinks! ;-)
NoName
always short term gain w/o long term considerations i.e. 'pragmatism'. everything has to be done quick.
just saw a chinese representing croatia in table tennis *faint*
the world had changed. perhaps we better change too? *half-serious*
actually what we mean, I guess, is that short term gain mentality is just that - short term - it cannot be sustainable and it will be replaced by another short-term measure.
I dunno if the parachuted foreign talent benefit the local talent at all. But my guess is that the FT cannot possibly lose their edge just by 'grooming' the local talent. They hv to compete globally but the real obvious loss is the local talent might not get such chances by being deemed not good enuf (that meritocratic bias).
My take is that sooner or later, one cannot escape from starting from inside and doing things for the long haul - and this has been done before in other countries. China table tennis is obvious. It's just that nowadays it is not shameless to poach or hire internationally for instant glory.
I think taking suffering as the common ground for Singaporeans is actually apt. If you are a Jew, then your religion as well as your presecution by Nazis are common ground. Without a common religion, Singaporeans only have the common ground of having to endure a pointless system that treats us as a mere statistic. If you are human in the Matrix, what you have in common with other humans is that you are a mere battery. It is delusional to think that the common ground is something like you both like Starbucks coffee. I mean get a grip. Starbucks coffee is what keeps you captive as a battery. The larger potentialities, freedoms and dignity of humans are far more important than random tastes. So although many of us share the common ground of liking laksa, durian, kopi si, it is the suffering that bonds us. Until and unless we achieve the actual meaning of our pledge,Olympic medals are mere battery water.
with so many youngsters in ns every year, surely there is a chance to win shooting medals?
The larger potentialities, freedoms and dignity of humans are far more important than random tastes.
sibeh cheem. sure or not. dun bluf me lah. 66.6 citi-zens catch no ball then how har? They not singkarpo lang isit?
wah ... u using powerful england shoot my frens isit? kiam pa! u arty farty *beep* ...
To paraphrase the fictional Duke of Deer mountain ... "got rice in belly no care who is king".
Aiyah .. singaporean is singaporean. like u go on tour overseas ha .. one look at his pattern u know must be singaporean.
NoName
i wud like to see the chinese send an oar lang to play table tennis at the olumpic one of this days. i just wonder the vast majority of the chinese china can accept an american oar lang to run for them or not. or the japan send an ang moh fat fat go fight sumo( dun talk exception of hawaian but he also long process convert japanese and marry one too) and vast majority japanese clap clap cheer cheer and can accept...than...i say, can.
and one more,
If we were to subscribe to the 'We Are The World' globalised collective, there would be no need for flags and anthems at the Olympics. Every 200 metre record broken would be celebrated by all humanity, not only the Jamaicans.
...if no more racists, religions, culturals, country barrier, nationality bla bla bla...i ok can accept medal.
thank you very much.
Daniel says -
Hurray SINGAPORE you have finally won an Olympic SILVER medal! "We're Singapore, we're Singapore, Singapore . . . . "
Action speaks louder than words. To the sour grapes who don't bring any medal home to glorify Singapore I say we humble ourselves. This is only human decency and simple etiquette.
remember, numerous FTs have helped to take Singapore to where it is today eg ex-Malaysians Cheong (SIA), AG Chan (Pedra Branca), early PAP Ministers, etc.
Two common values that define a nationality are:
-common language
-want to die there if got choice (paraphrase Rilke)
The early PAP ministers spoke the same language as the people. They shed tears and worked their butts off for the ideal of the Singaporean nation. They were true Singaporeans.
LJW .. will she stay or will she jet back to Beijing after collecting her money? Too early to judge? Too early to accept her then :-p
The problem is that we had some widely shared values (eg singlish which is deemed not glamourous enough).
We had history but they are torn down in the name of progress(eg National Library).
Even the shared suffering are being diluted.
eg NS(FT, white horse, serfs). elites vs non-elites. cosmopolitans vs heartlanders.
I believe identity is something that evolves naturally. Unfortunately, it looks like the gahmen does not like what it sees and tries to manufacture an ideal one. And we are reacting as expected when foreign objects(values) are inserted into a body.
We resist. until we realise that the foreign object is here to stay. we adapt. or we die\leave.
NoName
politics sports no same.politics about building home, sports about from home become champion.
you got see or not?
thank you very much
"LJW .. will she stay or will she jet back to Beijing after collecting her money?"
Does it really matter whether a person comes and goes? This is a free country, isn't it? We're a nation of immigrants in the first place; except for the native indigenous aborigines, the Orang Laut; our forefathers all came from China, Indonesia and India.
Whether LJW stays on or goes isn't an issue at all hereafter. Indeed, if she had owed Singapore anything, she had delivered! She made the apparent impossible possible for SINGAPORE and I mean SINGAPORE. She put Singapore on the Olympic Map where you and none has been unable to do so over the last 48 years. In any case, I doubt if she could deliver, given her age, come London 2012. Her leaving if it is true is inconsequential to Singapore. Can't you see SINGAPORE has already WON (period).
Give her a break please and if only you had witnessed the emotion of these three girls after winning. They played their butts out against the motherland (origin of Chinese people) for the fatherland (provision & livelihood). And I can tell you it's not easy. Shabas!
Derek
what made singoporeen?
many many things. most important is edukaykaysion. when you learn sports plus songoporean edukaykaysion from young, you aotomatic tok think kena psycho politics like true blue sing song poreens.
singopore edukaykaysion vedy important. learn it so you can spelt and tok like me.lol.
you understood?
thank you very much
hello! actually i do think suffering and struggle is what unifies...not particularly pertaining to this issue about being Singaporean, but relating to establishing group identity in general (:
My stand on this matter is
http://www.xtralicious.com/2008/08/18/have-we-won-an-olympics-medal-really/
http://www.xtralicious.com/2008/08/21/the-whole-foreign-talent-debacle/
All this argument is irrelevant. Country is just a label, frankly speaking. Croatia has chinese table tennis player, korea also has chinese table tennis player. Feng tian wei initially left china for Japan and ended up in Singapore after a brief stint. Look at other countries. America has russian gymnast and a chinese coach for their volleyball team. Its the trend, like it or not.
Singaporeans who want to play in the olympic will have to prove their mettle. Outside the sports arena, the same thing applies. I dont see why singaporean athletes should be any less exposed to similar competitions.
For me, whether it is Joscelin Yeo or Tao Li, it doesnt matter. I just feel proud of and happy for whoever that plays on the world stage.
anon_August 22, 2008 9:33 AM" despite being a Singaporean, i personally dont really feel a sense of belonging - because...females are spared from NS...?
-.- just because females are spared from NS doesnt quite justify the lack in sense of belonging. at least females and males both complain and rant and scream at the education system. dont just look at the NS thing.. i know it may be the first thing that comes to your mind about being singaporean, but a "singaporean identity" is much much more than that.
like the above entries mentioned, im not against LJW, but neither am i elated at her achievement. being a little cynical, i feel that her actions and statements dont quite seem to reflect that she identifies with singapore or she has a sense of belonging to this island. a little off-topic, but if she and roland susilo worked out and settled down here, maybe the resentment towards her will lessen. *just a thought*
The simple question is -
why aren't you excited about Zhang Yi Ning (the top Chinese player) winning a gold or silver?
Why don't you cheer Zhang Yi Ning, the way you cheer Li Jia Wei?
"Oh, because Zhang is representing China, not Singapore, of course," you say.
Okay. So suppose the paperwork could have been done in a hurry, and suddenly at the Olympics, Zhang Yi Ning appears wearing a Singapore T-shirt, and says, "I just got my S'pore citizenship last week, now I'm playing for Singapore!"
You would support and cheer her then? Somehow I don't think this.
Then you must proceed to ask yourself why, and why not.
Why do you suppose Feng was inducted into the team only last year?
I submit that the confederation of schemers knew that without the help of Feng, the then team despite years of planning and preparation ahead of the game, we will not achieve the coveted medal.
Please. Love the players, but No shame medal!
if other contries got corrupt officials must we also has corrupt officials? there is many other no con game, why never follow hah?
jizz!
Parents may cheer for someone's children accomplishment but, they will never be as proud as their own achieving success.
1358.1
Making friends or making out?
I UNDERSTAND the Government worries about the reluctance among the young to marry and have children. But, certain organisations are taking the message too far.
Several of my nephews and nieces in their first year at two of our local universities told me that their orientation camp organised lewd and improper activities. These games, I was told, were backed by the Social Development Unit (SDU).
In one game, female students were made to exchange sweets with male students using their mouths as they sat in a circle.
Another required a female student to lie on the floor as a male student did push-ups on top of her, obviously mimicking copulation.
There were also games where girls were asked to pick boys they wished to pair up with for a segment of the camp. Less 'attractive looking girls' were subjected to the taunts of boys who groaned and lamented to their friends when they were picked by these 'ugly girls'.
Such activities concern me. Are our youth being taught that physical attraction and touching are more important than appreciating another person's character?
Yes, physical attraction has some importance in forging relationships. But it should not be overtly emphasised. Moreover, if youth are taught to focus on the heat and sexual attraction of young love, their relationships will never be healthy, wholesome and enriching.
Do our universities and the SDU want our youth to end up sleeping together and waking up the next day only to discover that they cannot stand the character of the person whom they have just spent the night with, but still having had the best time in bed anyway?
I question the rationale in allowing such games. Without proper guidance, orientation organisers, who are inexperienced and hormone-charged youth, will lead their younger fellow students astray.
We want more of our youth to get married, but such activities demean both sexes and the idea of marriage.
If I'm not wrong, most undergraduates attend the orientation camp to make friends with people they will be studying with. My nieces and nephews say that they've made very few friends.
If they feel uncomfortable participating in such games, they are labelled 'square' and lacking in sportsmanship.
Such camps are teaching our youth to drop their moral values and religious beliefs for sexual gratification.
I don't think we want a nation of youth engaged in relationships that are lacking in moral values and religious beliefs just to halt the falling birthrate.
I urge the authorities to regulate such programmes.
I wouldn't want my child dating a schoolmate who did push-ups on top of her.
Soh Eng Phang (Ms)
Tan Howe Liang may be born in China, but he is still here after 50 years, despite his Olympic achievements being totally dismissed by the Singapore government for most of those years.
Jing Jun Hong is still here as well.
They would be Singaporeans whether or not they had the possibility delivering a medal for Singapore, and they will stay here long after the gravy train stops.
The same cannot be said of Li Jiawei. She behaves like a employee enslaved by high wages she cannot say no to, but otherwise has nothing but disdain for her employer. There is little question she will pack up and go as soon as the money stops flowing. Where's Zhang Xueling now?
I feel some sympathy for Tao Li, but the way Singapore government has totally ruined the local sports scene, and it is hard not to be cynical.
They are trying to win medals at all costs.
Does the man in the streets really need Singapore to win an Olympic medal?
It is all ego needs by certain individuals.
It's not unlike some guy waking up one morning suddenly feeling their manhood inadequate because the neighbour just bought a shiny new fancy car.
If you know the foreign talent sport scheme, you will know how dehumanising it is. Athletes from China are imported, and if they dont make the grade, they get kicked out. Sounds about right if you are dealing with merchandise, slaves, or even employees. But this is not how a human treat a human.
So, go ahead and cheer for the paddlers. Just as a man can derive joy from sex, whether it is with his wife or a prostitute. But woe befall the idiot who cannot tell the difference between the two.
Why do you suppose Feng was inducted into the team only last year?
I submit that the confederation of schemers knew that without the help of Feng, the then team despite years of planning and preparation ahead of the game, we will not achieve the coveted medal.
Please. Love the players, but No shame medal!
Haha. I was thinking the same too.
The table tennis team event is a new event introduced in Beijing Olymics 2008.
Liu Guodong, the girls' team coach, probably had knowledge of that way before the commencement of the 2008 Oylmpics and so seized the opportunity to come to Singapore slightly over 2 years ago.
Their table tennis coach Liu Guodong said: "I feel very honoured. I've been in Singapore for just over two years and can help it get an Olympic medal, at least a silver, for the first time in 48 years."
He probably figured that with only Li Jiawei and Wang Yuegu, Singapore was missing an important piece in the puzzle. So he roped in Feng Tianwei.
The timing could not have been more perfect.
Face it guys. everyone is doing it
TIME: The Year of the Mercenary Athlete
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1833856,00.html
nobody can change the fact that Singapore have won an olympic medal after 48 years!
Fred says -
Let's party and celebrate for Singapore has eventually won a medal at the Beijing Olympics. And br part of Singapore's glory.
To hell with those good-for-nothing cynics & pundits who can only condemn, criticise, complain but unable to deliver anything.
We are proud of you Singapore!
Stand Up! Stand Up for Singapore!
It's the world class syndrome started by GCT together w the Boston of the East and Switzerland of Asia.
In this context, to fast track everything since original singaporeans cannot make it in numbers and quality, throw $$$ at the problem. This is the 'external into internal' glorification strategy since all govts need a piece of land and an economy to govern to begin with. That's why SSC is 'high performance systems' criteria can never be serious.
OTOH, the 'internal to external' syndrome would mean the corporatization of most things in Singapore to make $$$ to cover the first $$$ in the first place. The govt probably realized long ago that we cannot sustain as a mfg hub and regional HQ forever, so better to push out corporatized entities to make $$$ to feed stomachs.
I can go on and on, but as we can see, Singapore Inc as a social fabric is turned inside out. Notice that LSS stopped talking abt job re-design some time ago and NTUC logo is modernised into a 'U', not 'We'.
The only thing sacred that Singaporeans have is the vote left. One can cheer for the table tennis team etc for all one can but when it comes to the hard issues like real success, real progress, real results, real wage growth, real relationships ... real inspiration, real leadership by example, pleeze get real and dun get too serious or else feelings get hurt ....
dun blame the LJWs ....she might even be perceived as someone who left China for greener pastures.
"To hell with those good-for-nothing cynics & pundits who can only condemn, criticise, complain but unable to deliver anything."
LOL. I think that statement can justify murder( to hell!). LOL.
MONEY! MONEY! MONEY!
If money is unlimited, if locals have already been well taken care of, I would have felt differently.
Personally I don't care about all such competitions, be it in sports, business , schooling or otherwise. I don't think it is necessary for human being to work so hard and progress so fast. I guess the faster you go the quicker you will bring this earth to an end (for human being). I hope the world can progress to a point where people can all live in leisure and not having to fight so hard all the time. That way, we will not need to worry about having FT's.
August 21, 2008 8:54 PM
Dear Anon,
I agreed with you very much. Unfortunately, it will not never happen in singapore.
That statement does not justify murder; it merely sanctions murder - a typical spirit for 'Stand Up Singapore' at any cost or price.
Btw, at the rate we r going, we are entering hell anyway, for the sake of a gold medal. What's the point? ;)
Singapore Inc is run by KPIs. The goals(KPI) justify the means(behavior).
Under the current system, some first generation migrants perceive second generation migrants being wooed, given preferential treatment. It will take more and more to retain these preferred citizens, as they too will be wooed by other countries which are endowed with better monetary and living conditions. At the same time, some first generation migrants who feel sidelined seek out other countries that offer better monetary and living conditions.
This I fear, is a policy with a short-term view, similar that taken by many other Incs, such as Citibank, Merril Lynch, which have seen a similar pursuit of short term goals without regard for their long term effects, giving us the sub-prime coupe-de-grace.
While it makes sense to adopt certain corporate practices in the running of a country, there is no successful precedent in running a country as a business.
Much wisdom it takes,
to see the present beyond,
for the future live,
we must.
It is almost as clear as day light that Ms Li Jia Wei would return to her beloved motherland now that she indicated her retirement fr competitive sports.
So I hope those fella who talk so much would hold their horses,unless they truly believe that Ms Li Jia Wei would stay put and die a Singaporean,in which case I think I should be the first to apologise to PAP.
if people are so insistent on authentic representation, perhaps next time the olympics should be classified according to their race, regardless of their nationality. That will nicely do away with tricky issue of defining a true Singaporean, American, German etc.
The athletes will be grouped as Chinese (Han), Chinese (non-Han), Scandinavians, African, Greek, Indians, English, Irish etc.
Mr Wang, this other one sounds a tad relevant to your current post.
Want to take a look?
http://lemondroplets.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!26F399664A850E81!627.entry
I urge Singaporeans to take a long term view of Singapore leadership.
Like what PM et al has been saying about Merill Lynch etc investments. Over the long term, it will be good.
Vote for the opposition. They may screw up in 5 years. But over the long term, Singapore will have a larger pool of leaders to choose from. And not to worry about having to pay million dollars or lose their "talents" to private companies.
Congrats Singapore on winning the Olympic Medal at Beijing 2008.
48 long years and it's here!
Benny Teo
Mr Wang, what's the fishy posts up there? Does the person need legal assistance?
:O
Suffering is not just a hallmark; it is a criteria for S'pore citizenship.
I personally know of quite a few families, who having relocated overseas, were faced with the issue of their sons' National Service. The parents had to fork out a HUGE bond amount to ensure that their sons would go back to S'pore to serve their NS. Some of the families couldn't afford to cough up this amount; and some were uncomfortable with the idea of sending their sons to S'pore for NS, when these boys had spent almost all their lives away from S'pore and so would feel little connection, if any, to S'pore. It's like asking some of us to go back to China to serve in the Chinese army just because our parents/grandparents were originally from China.
Despite the families' appeals, the authorities made no concession. Whatever your circumstances, you have to come back and serve NS, if you want to retain your S'pore citizenship.
Faced with this impossible choice, the families made their decision-- Give up S'pore citizenship. In their own words: Their host/adopted "foreign" country treated them from day one as one of their own; whereas S'pore, where they had lived, worked and contributed to for a large part of their lives, has "wu qing" (no feeling/compassion) towards them.
They all gave up their S'pore citizenship with no regrets. If "suffering" through NS is a criteria for S'pore citizenship, they would rather not have it.
One long post deleted for irrelevance. I glanced briefly through it and I think it was vaguely about how lousy Malaysia is, compared to Singapore. However, Malaysia is not relevant to the current discussion.
Future irrelevant posts will be deleted without further notice from me, as I cannot waste so much time explaining my editorial decisions to the one same idiot who keeps trying to post so much irrelevant stuff to my blog.
Mr Wang, I have nothing against Li and her team. Nor do I have anything against the Olympics Silver medal.
I think, why many people are unfeeling, at best, towards the Silver medal and some times even sour towards Li and her team, is probably the PAP and the media's fault.
You see Mr Wang, what the PAP Gov has been telling us is, "the foreigners are here to help us", but the PAP MPs and media translated that along the way to "We take in foreigners because you lose to them." And even to "You will die if there are no foreigners." These 2 add to "Singaporeans are losers."
There goes your pride issue.
"Assist" and "compete" are 2 words on 2 ends of the stick. One holds a carrot though.
So, the unfeeling (even ill feelings) towards Li, is not personal. Li is just unfortunate to be the trumpet for a highly unpopular policy translated wrongly.
This shows how "in touch" PM Lee is with the ground. He does not even know the messages his team mates and the media are sending, are just rubbing people off the wrong way, and undoing his good work.
Time to sack his media advisers and look for real gurus.
The parents had to fork out a HUGE bond amount to ensure that their sons would go back to S'pore to serve their NS. Some of the families couldn't afford to cough up this amount; and some were uncomfortable with the idea of sending their sons to S'pore for NS, when these boys had spent almost all their lives away from S'pore and so would feel little connection, if any, to S'pore.
These people are no different from the foreigners we are critising daily for wanting to take Singapore for a ride.
Their parents served Singapore, they deserve the Singapore passport. These young ones must go through what every other Singaporean goes through. What else would be "fair" mean? Soon you will have everyone skipping town for 18 years to skip NS and we will have no defence capacities.
On this, I support the regulations. Stop asking for unfair treatment. This is my consistant call.
Another post from the same idiot, deleted for irrelevance.
Let me explain this simply. Readers are quite free to express a wide range of views, as long as they are relevant to my post.
See for instance:
(a) Daniel Chin's post (August 22, 2008 1:24 PM); and
(b) Jimmy Mun's post (August 23, 2008 11:50 AM)
Both these readers have very opposite views on the topic. You could say that Daniel is very "pro-foreign sports talent" and Jimmy is very "anti-foreign sports talent".
Nevertheless, both readers' comments are published. That's because their comments are relevant to the discussion.
However, I simply do not publish irrelevant comments. Clearly you have some difficulty comprehending this "relevance" concept, so let me help you along. Your rejected comments do not contain any of the following words:
1. table tennis
2. Li Jia Wei
3. China
4. Olympics
5. citizenship
6. Olympics
7. medal
8. sports
9. suffering
10. struggle
11. Mark Wong
... therefore it is not relevant. Malaysia is not relevant to this topic, any more than France or Chile or Timbuctoo is relevant.
As a human, I think I can live anywhere. BUT, I am not allowed to stay put anywhere. Born in Singapore, I have to be approved for residence. It is not as though there is an unoccupied space and I can plant myself or my ashes(if I died) in it.
A passport is needed for me to cross the boundary and no matter how hardworking I am, no foreign land will welcome me. BUT, if I have plenty of money or is able to make plenty of money(by working as expatriate), I am likely to be welcomed. So, it is money that's welcomed, not me. So much for globalization; one World for all, World of bullshits.
In Uniquely Singapore, some foreign talents are imported/bought with big money. The professions of some produce nothing tangible but something vaguely known as glory. And it is not permanent glory but fleeting one.
Each FT turned PR or citizen means a local loses a job. This is unlike those foreigners hire into Singapore to build us houses and other contract works. The transient workers are not FT that stay on, they are here only to provide short term services. They do not compete with locals for jobs or buy up properties etc and drive up the costs of livings.
Before I stray too much, let me say that I am a Singaporean not because I want to be one, and I am not proud to be one. But Nature has made me here, so by all condition, I am made and entitle to be a Singaporean. So are my rulers themselves.
I wish to be an International Citizen(globalize me), can I be one? Can my Ruler exile me? I will gladly accept it, no reason need be given.
Please do not believe that Singaporeans are all happy and proud to be born here. On the contrary, many are are unhappy but helpless because the 'globalized' World has too many man-made boundaries and restrictions. It is most unfortunate that most Singaporeans have to confine themselves in a tiny red dot.
MORE UNFORTUNATELY, Singaporeans are made to share this tiny red dot with foreigners, BECAUSE OF POLICIES IMPLEMENTATIONS BY THEIR VERY OWN LEADERS!
patriot
nowsadays har singopore edukaykaysion got teach google or not?
Try "olympics" "politics" lah.
Abstract buzz words like "globalisation" is just smoke bombs lah. Nobody actually really know what it is but using cheem words (13 letters!) make me feel damn cleber :-)
And who say no good? There are cheekopeks who are very happy with the import of cheena mei-meis u knoe! this kind of IQ how to win erection?
All those who say PM not "in touch" ... wah liao ... where u want him to touch u? I actually very scared he touch my wallet some more!
Suffering and struggle is a hallmark of a true human being lah.
E.g maybe the pm's son will be the 3rd real PM of sinkapore but during ns he also struggling "If RSM ask me if this is my grandfather's road ... how to answer har?"
No happy ask Mr Wang to teach u mindbending lah. Or pickup Bible *recommended*
Eh Mr Wang, when u posting happy things like how to turn $100 into $1million? dun tell me invest in 5% FD and wait 190 years ok.
NoName
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