tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post4541398968305543355..comments2024-03-19T18:44:15.041+08:00Comments on Little Stories: Thought for the DayGilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-10195102009105074882007-04-01T17:52:00.000+08:002007-04-01T17:52:00.000+08:00"XCS" (March 11, 2007 3:38 PM) is grossly, shockin..."XCS" (March 11, 2007 3:38 PM) is grossly, shockingly and sadly* out of touch with reality!<BR/><BR/>See "To make Chinese language the scapegoat" (March 9, 2007 2:40 PM) for some true stats. I can give u some stats off-hand too: National PSLE A and A* for Chinese: 80%!!! A and A* for English: <45%<BR/><BR/>Hopefully, the above stats can knock some sense into the "XCS" type when they said:<BR/>> Has anyone any stats about failures in Chinese as compared to all other subjects. That could help explain why so many people failed in it -and the explanation is that: it's a tough language to master<BR/><BR/>*sadly - many of our elite policy makeres happens to belong "XCS": out of touch with reality on the ground!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-4319667554992825232007-03-13T23:47:00.000+08:002007-03-13T23:47:00.000+08:00I have no problems communicating in english or man...I have no problems communicating in english or mandarine. BUT ... my mother tongue is Hokkien la and I'm good at it too... so how? Many people in their 30s are tri-lingual too.<BR/><BR/>So when youngsters these days complain - actually boasting -about them being monolingual (usually english) I really dont have much sympathy for them.<BR/>Yet, is it society's fault or our educatin system that created these monolingual students?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-14265280772374378422007-03-11T15:38:00.000+08:002007-03-11T15:38:00.000+08:00From XCS:Hey, I think the problem is the govt maki...From XCS:<BR/><BR/>Hey, I think the problem is the govt making it such a fuss about passing Chinese being conditional to you guys getting anywhere worthwhile educationally in your next step to train for a career.<BR/><BR/>Has anyone any stats about failures in Chinese as compared to all other subjects. That could help explain why so many people failed in it -and the explanation is that: it's a tough language to master in the midst of tackling other subjects, esp. English which you must become proficient in in order to understand ALL the rest of your schooling; the teaching format and method is one that is completely deficient, viv a vis the competing academic, practcal, societal, customary, economic and other environment that exist here. Speaking mandarin is simply uncool, no matter how the govt wishes it to be otherwise. The fact is, nothing short of a near total immersion for long long periods can you be proficient. A lowering of demands/expectations a la in testing and standard in no way make it any easier to acquire REAL proficiency - don't believe? ask ANY chinese national what they honesty think about or Mandarin competency. Probably 95% will tell you it sucks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-46688155012416701622007-03-11T12:01:00.000+08:002007-03-11T12:01:00.000+08:00I agree with the people who point out that the req...I agree with the people who point out that the requirement of a pass in chinese to enter the university is no different from requiring a pass in any other subject such as English etc.<BR/><BR/>If, for example, a pass in physics (at A levels) is an entry requirement to do various engineering courses in the university, wouldn't one have to pass it?<BR/><BR/>As another example (where the A level subject has no correlation to the course), a pass in mathematics (at A levels) is a requirement to do law. Wouldn't one have to pass it?<BR/><BR/>How hard is it to PASS a course you have to take? Did we all fail moral education/ social studies/PE, in which some of us had absolutely no interest in? Just get a pass, no one's forcing you to try and get an "A" against your natural biological weakness in mastering 2 languages. <BR/><BR/>The issue of how other people make you feel stupid if you fail a particular subject is slightly different - then again, you really shouldn't be failing to PASS a subject. It's only 50 marks. <BR/><BR/>Don't whine if you fail to do the minimum, when the rules are clearly set out to you since day one of your education - PASS IT. It's not rocket science.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-58390306119866643982007-03-11T04:55:00.000+08:002007-03-11T04:55:00.000+08:00I meant *speak IN chinese*, not 'speak and chinese...I meant *speak IN chinese*, not 'speak and chinese'...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-36461429993708541642007-03-11T04:54:00.000+08:002007-03-11T04:54:00.000+08:00Oh btw...i got C5 for my English in my Os, and it'...Oh btw...i got C5 for my English in my Os, and it's *game over* in the L1R5 game even though i scored all As for the rest of my 7 subjects except chinese.<BR/><BR/>And C5 for Chinese in my As (with B4 for GP)..<BR/><BR/>Indeed chinese teachers and the teaching sux...but it's still no reason to degrade a language cos of stupid system and people.<BR/><BR/>- Someone who prefers to speak and chinese but read in english...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-27889460843217151442007-03-11T04:41:00.000+08:002007-03-11T04:41:00.000+08:00If much can be said about talented being unnecessa...If much can be said about talented being unnecessarily hindered by poor chinese, then what about other intelligent people who got sidelined because of poor english??<BR/><BR/>It's no use getting 8 A1s when ur English is a D7...it can't land u in a top JC. And it's no use getting A's for sciences and maths when ur GP is a D7 or E8.<BR/><BR/>I mean...why should intelligent people be discriminated at all just because of poor command of a certain language? There are some intelligent pple (with IQ much higher than the average Joe) out there being dumped into EM3 and ITE just because of their unfavourable background and they're severely disadvantaged in learning english, ultimately hindering all the other subjects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-33542211236543413642007-03-11T00:03:00.000+08:002007-03-11T00:03:00.000+08:00anon,I disagree. Some people are just wired in the...anon,<BR/><BR/>I disagree. Some people are just wired in the brain for certain languages. Some can learn many langauges. There is no such thing as blaming yourself for not able to master a language, some level of proficiency yes, but not everyone is a linguist. So your comment is really useless and meaningless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-44078277780523222772007-03-10T23:08:00.000+08:002007-03-10T23:08:00.000+08:00Don't blame the language for not doing well.When t...Don't blame the language for not doing well.<BR/><BR/>When there's a will, there's a way.<BR/><BR/>(:Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-21165750761334598972007-03-10T19:01:00.000+08:002007-03-10T19:01:00.000+08:00To anti-Chinese... oi what's up?By the way, your s...To anti-Chinese... oi what's up?<BR/><BR/>By the way, your statement:<BR/><BR/>"No wonder you cannot understand the logic of treating the 4 subjects equally in PSLE."<BR/><BR/>AC you are incorrect. The four subjects were not treated equally: English and Chinese were double-weighted. That was how my fellow student who scored distinctions for English and Chinese - but just passes in Math and Science - got streamed to Express (in 1981) Whereas I scored As for Math Science - and a B for English, and a fail for Mandarin got streamed to N.<BR/><BR/>I just don't agree that children should have been streamed at such a young age - just because they didn't do so well in one particular language - English or Mandarin.Yauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00739777043491722892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-12723963970829552392007-03-10T14:58:00.000+08:002007-03-10T14:58:00.000+08:00To anonymous at March 10, 2007 5:37 AM:"Judging a ...To anonymous at March 10, 2007 5:37 AM:<BR/><BR/><I>"Judging a person in his chosen occupation by irrelevant school grades is what the PAP does."</I><BR/><BR/>Yup, agree. With PAP being the party forming the govt, their actions carry implications for the country and its citizens.<BR/><BR/><I>Having intelligent person(s) survived the system, does not mean the system is good or that it cannot be improved.</I> One area of improvement is to allow students to move toward their interests and develop their strengths (e.g. select their own compulsory pass-subjects), while offering a broad-based education that does not penalize failure to meet some arbitrary standards (e.g. offer a wider range of optional subjects). <B><I>The point is to support each student in developing his strengths and not be unnecessarily bogged down by his weaknesses</I></B>... that (I infer) is the point of Mr Wang's post.<BR/><BR/><I>"we are judged by are managable, as evidenced by the successes of rote learning"</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, agree with you that one can pass a lot of stuff by rote learning. I even know a Computer Science grad who know nuts about systems and software development, passing her exams by regurgitation and leeching on her teammates for project work. Do we really want to churn out graduates who are "proficient" on-paper only?<BR/><BR/><B><I>What about the potential flip-side to over-emphasis on rote learning?</I></B> Is there any correlation to the creativity (or lack of) in our students? Perhaps the educators would like to research into it?<BR/><BR/>Btw, my chinese tutor once tried an alternative method to teach chinese (through songs) albeit only for 2 lessons. Those were the 2 lessons that I truly enjoyed and made an effort to learn more of the language, I respected his attempt. Thereafter he switched back to the rote learning methodology, possibly because he was constrainted by the amount of "compulsory" AO syllabus he had to cover. Perhaps having a "syllabus B" back then may have supported for his alternative teaching methods.<BR/><BR/>To Smurfette... you're not alone. I know of another mixed heritage person who struggled because of his parents' decision that Malay would be his 2nd language. Yes, unfortunately, he looks down on the langauge and its people too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-87834073707812624062007-03-10T08:46:00.000+08:002007-03-10T08:46:00.000+08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Yauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00739777043491722892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-49430040114403268042007-03-10T08:33:00.000+08:002007-03-10T08:33:00.000+08:00The irony of this learn Mandarin drive is that whi...The irony of this learn Mandarin drive is that while the MIW messed up young people's lives with the language emphasis, the mainland Chinese are busy learning English. Why should they trust Singaporeans to be their translators, when they can communicate directly with the English speaking business world? When I do a technical presentation in Beijing, they always insist I speak in English, as they want to learn the technical terms e.g. "electric brain" in Mandarin just doesn't have the same ring as "computer".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-33579922613213824902007-03-10T08:19:00.000+08:002007-03-10T08:19:00.000+08:00I now I say this sure kena slam one.. but hor, let...I now I say this sure kena slam one.. but hor, let me tell you that if you go 'over-sea' to work/ study the ang mo will not chap you but it is the PRC chinese/ Taiwanese/ Hongkee who want to be "Pheng Yew" with you one...so I am glad that I forced myself to learn chinese ( I like you HATED chinese academically like Shit, but I "loon" and perservere)... at least NOW it help me to make good friend in a foreign land.. The ang mo will respect you if you know Chinese well, your "england" no matter how good ang mo and you sure got some sort of barrier one la.. I dunno, maybe i am a converted chinese helicopter ( You see my english writing you know liao la) but then I am proudly one... but do not get me wrong, I am not imposing that everyone must follow me but I just feel I must express how the chinese language helped me in this foreign land... ok la.... c u guys soon! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-79250691378079575902007-03-10T06:00:00.000+08:002007-03-10T06:00:00.000+08:00I got an F9 for my GP at A level!!! you know, some...I got an F9 for my GP at A level!!! you know, sometimes i wish i rather pass my GP and fail my chinese. I am rather proficieny in my chinese but when i am in sydney now, i feel that my chinese isn't that good when I speak to the Chinese from China and my english sucks when I speak to the ang mos...The feeling sucks...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-41437286468571083552007-03-10T05:37:00.000+08:002007-03-10T05:37:00.000+08:00a2 but fail oral exam, You are the the very illust...a2 but fail oral exam, <BR/><BR/>You are the the very illustration of my point and yet you think you disagree with it. We're all put into a school system that has bits we don't like. An intelligent person -- like yourself -- (though I'm beginning to doubt that) understands the system and does what it takes to minimise his torment (such as by getting A2 in Chinese so he can drop the subject altogether, or -- my point -- at least pass so his future is not jeopardised). (My reference to "failing" should have been "failing to meet the minimum requirement" -- failing an oral exam is not failing in that sense since it does not invalidate the overall pass grade.)<BR/><BR/>Judging a person in his chosen occupation by irrelevant school grades is what the PAP does. <BR/><BR/>But at school, we are not fish being judged by how we climb a tree. At the things we are judged by are managable, as evidenced by the successes of rote learning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-11419671475400530692007-03-10T03:03:00.000+08:002007-03-10T03:03:00.000+08:00I find it ironic and very humorous that Mandarin i...I find it ironic and very humorous that Mandarin is being slammed here and people are complaining that there are so few detractors.<BR/><BR/>Want to know why? Most of those who would defend Mandarin probably can't argue their case fluently in English.<BR/><BR/>Don't look for oranges in an apple farm. Don't expect too many people to defend Mandarin on an English website.choanikihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11670019142121103514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-17876675703679225222007-03-10T01:06:00.000+08:002007-03-10T01:06:00.000+08:00It's pretty interesting to see that the only 2nd l...It's pretty interesting to see that the only 2nd langauge being slammed here is Mandarin instead of two of our other official languages.<BR/><BR/>I just received my result for the Malay langauge 'A' Level exam- Ungraded indeed. The implication is that I'm required to re-take the exam this year instead of doing the Syllabus 'B'- that can only be taken next year if I fail again.<BR/><BR/>At least a command of Mandarin is economically-viable in this age of globalisation (think China), whereas the Malay langauge isn't. Just look at how backward Malaysia is. And for those fools who argue that knowing a certain langauge helps one understand the people and culture better (like how all my horrid Malay Lang. teachers espouse)- that only works if it's voluntary and not forced upon you. I've studied Malay since Pri 1 but for the life of me, I do not even have any Malay friends -partly due to the continuing existence of racial enclaves and my aversion to the language itself.<BR/><BR/>Ethnically, I'm not Malay but of mixed Asian ancestry. And this may actually sound seditious but when you're of a different lineage, and learning a langauge you hate- at some point in time, that hatred filters down from the language to the people- since their ancestors had created it, and they are still speaking it!<BR/><BR/>Therefore, the purpose of making all S'poreans study a second langauge just does not cut it. As for Mandarin, I took it up in kindergarten. I did have interest except that my mum decided Malay would be an easier choice since its alphabets are Romanised.<BR/><BR/>Compared to Mandarin, Malay is an inferior langauge- at least in my opinion. And having an inferior language makes its people just as inferior in my eyes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-59579729932897841092007-03-10T00:33:00.000+08:002007-03-10T00:33:00.000+08:00I was wondering....If John has a 1/2french1/2engli...I was wondering....<BR/><BR/>If John has a 1/2french1/2english father and a 1/2japanese1/2chinese mother, what is his native language? Doesn't he have 3 second languages in this case?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-47988551821651590492007-03-10T00:22:00.000+08:002007-03-10T00:22:00.000+08:00Anon at March 9, 2007 8:08 PM: "Not doing well for...Anon at March 9, 2007 8:08 PM: "Not doing well for a subject in school doesn't make you stupid, but failing it sure does... <I>a moderately intelligent person should</I> really put in the effort to <I>at least get a passing grade.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Firstly, at least 2 commentors (myself and "Another Oral Failure") are anecdotes of how passing in the examination system does not equate profiency.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, your comment above is an illustration of the mindset that Albert Einstein was debunking with his comment to "<I>judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree</I>".<BR/><BR/>IMHO, a <I>wise/intelligent person</I> will not accept a summary judgement of his intelligence from an arbitrary external decision on what constitute a "not stupid" pass-grade in any particular skill alone (be it language, maths, golfing, gambling, etc).<BR/><BR/>To Another Oral Failure: Yup, imagine my Chinese tutor's jaw drop when I told him I got an A2 and requested his confirmation that I could drop Chinese classes. His words where "You can get an A? Show me!" in the prove-it tone. As a student in his classes, I always had the impression that he "see-no-up those chinese-failure" students. Btw, this tutor is now a MIW... hope chinese-chauvinism is not used to "balance-out" english-chauvinism because 2 wrongs don't make a right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-41018310746125816232007-03-10T00:09:00.000+08:002007-03-10T00:09:00.000+08:00Interesting debate going on here.....BUT CAN THE A...Interesting debate going on here.....BUT CAN THE ANONYMOUS people post their messages with names? It's getting really confusing for my pea-sized brain. Any crappy name would do (like mine)....<BR/><BR/>And why do we keep revolving around whether the Chinese language system is flawed? I don't think that's the crux of the issue here. The main issue at hand is how the education system should be designed such that it can bring out the best in everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-60066779992368448272007-03-09T23:45:00.000+08:002007-03-09T23:45:00.000+08:00anon @ March 9, 2007 2:40 PM,I don't agree with yo...anon @ March 9, 2007 2:40 PM,<BR/><BR/>I don't agree with your point 13. I think that is a kinda sweeping statement.<BR/><BR/>My parents don't know English and my dad can't even speak or even at times understand proper Mandarin. They both worked as cleaners.<BR/><BR/>I don't find them ashamed. And I appreciate their effort in bringing my brother and I up.<BR/><BR/>I hope you don't belong to point 13 yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-43178030359754283262007-03-09T20:41:00.000+08:002007-03-09T20:41:00.000+08:00i agree with what To make Chinese language the sca...i agree with what <B>To make Chinese language the scapegoat...</B> said. <BR/><BR/>chinese language appears to be a sore point for many people, but i think those who are weak in english have it much worse. and yes i do understand that the issue here is that we should look at people's strengths and not their weaknesses. just got tired of people complaining about chinese when it's already a "lower class" subject in schools.<BR/><BR/>the people i know who did poorly in chinese (the mission school types) don't appear to think of themselves as stupid. most are confident and sure of themselves and what their strenghts are. some can even be quite proud about their 'ineptitude' in the language (when it's really disinterest).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-33613960903557412212007-03-09T20:19:00.000+08:002007-03-09T20:19:00.000+08:00Actually, I agree with 'a2 but fail oral exam' bec...Actually, I agree with 'a2 but fail oral exam' because that's how I did it too! I completely guessed my way to a B3 for my Os and C5 for my As. Totally failed my oral. Perhaps I'm not as good in guesswork as A2, but you know, the problem with guesswork is that it's kinda hit-and-miss? <BR/><BR/>10 years on, I look back and marvel at how I managed to pass considering I didn't even read the question, much less understand it, much less know the answer... <BR/><BR/>I remember I later had to explain to my Chinese HOD why I failed my oral. But I couldn't express myself in Chinese and after struggling for a while just told her in English instead. I think she understood immediately...<BR/><BR/>Haha...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-45765682230829668662007-03-09T20:08:00.000+08:002007-03-09T20:08:00.000+08:00Not doing well for a subject in school doesn't mak...Not doing well for a subject in school doesn't make you stupid, but failing it sure does. Especially when it is *known* that you're screwed if you fail English/Maths/Chinese/whatever. a moderately intelligent person should really put in the effort to at least get a passing grade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com