tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post2563691960615707725..comments2024-03-19T18:44:15.041+08:00Comments on Little Stories: The Foreigner's Guide to Getting A Subsidised University Education in SingaporeGilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-44063612823459948602013-12-07T16:30:13.887+08:002013-12-07T16:30:13.887+08:00Hello,
I'm a bangladeshi graduate. I have pass...Hello,<br />I'm a bangladeshi graduate. I have passed my B.pharm and m.pharm degree. Now i want to take part in pharmacy technician course. But i can't understand who are subsidery and who are not,and what is grant tution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-29794661168470417022012-08-09T11:50:53.041+08:002012-08-09T11:50:53.041+08:00If school fees in local university cost $18k, I...If school fees in local university cost $18k, I'm more than willing to pay $36k to get in.<br /><br />It is pretty sad for a polytechnic graduate to be aimless in life and do a course switch because they were not granted any spot in the 3 local university.<br /><br />If you are scoring 1-2.3, probably you didn't try, but many of us who scored 2.8 - 3.3 have to end up in SIM or overseas.<br /><br />What's more funny is UOM accepts overseas students like us w GPA of 3.2 and NUS/NTU/SMU don't even bother looking at usSadnotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590287271596028209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-82338524782477457062009-01-12T08:35:00.000+08:002009-01-12T08:35:00.000+08:00"Personally, this is something I'd rather disagree...<I>"<BR/>Personally, this is something I'd rather disagree with. Whenever I try looking for job, of ANY kind (ranging from IT to shopkeepers), many times when the potential employer hears of me being not even a PR despite being eligible to apply for one, they'll immediately count me out, period, no more chance. That's pretty much my argument against your comment that foreigners are treated better at all."</I><BR/><BR/>Employers are discriminating against people without PR or citizenship status, not against foreigners per se. By definition, PR's *are* foreigners.<BR/><BR/>Surely, you must be aware that it is extremely easy for a foreign graduate from our local universities to apply for and obtain PR status after graduation. Your difficulty in seeking a job in Singapore has more to do with the fact that you have not obtained PR status, which is very easy to get and you have unwisely failed to apply for, than with your foreigner status.Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-65523579111171123482009-01-08T11:52:00.000+08:002009-01-08T11:52:00.000+08:00"A place where they treat the foreigners better th..."A place where they treat the foreigners better than the locals. "<BR/><BR/>Personally, this is something I'd rather disagree with. Whenever I try looking for job, of ANY kind (ranging from IT to shopkeepers), many times when the potential employer hears of me being not even a PR despite being eligible to apply for one, they'll immediately count me out, period, no more chance. That's pretty much my argument against your comment that foreigners are treated better at all.<BR/><BR/>Btw, as I have implied, I am a foreigner, and I have just graduated from NTU last July. And yes, I have been trying to find work for about 6 months, mostly sending e-mails, and all I have heard is silence, except for three or so whom I promptly thanked for actually saying a word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-82184785489142922372008-11-09T00:37:00.000+08:002008-11-09T00:37:00.000+08:00I understand the issue raised in this post, as wel...I understand the issue raised in this post, as well as the sentiments of those who have commented. But as a foreign student in Singapore, I think the label "obnoxious disgraceful people" is rather uncalled for.<BR/><BR/>I acknowledge that S'pore's universities are good, and compared to other places around the world, it is relatively cheaper because of the MOE Tuition Grant. The TG is also a lot easier to get, in contrast to financial aid from US colleges.<BR/><BR/>However, I would not be so bold as to claim that many foreign students would purposely "cheat" (am using the term loosely here) their way out of the 3-year bond. Most of my peers, both scholars and non-scholars, are keen on working in S'pore to fulfill the bond.<BR/><BR/>(If there are students who fox their way out of the bond, then by all means, make the terms and conditions of the TG stricter.)<BR/><BR/>Is the 3-month-no-job-you-can-leave a fair clause in the TG agreement? Given good economic conditions, I doubt many will be jobless. In light of the current economic state, though, whether or not I get a job in S'pore, I will still be the Accused. I will either be accused of stealing jobs, or of stealing taxpayers' money. Hmm.<BR/><BR/>My two cents. :)enilithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15622389539181270061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-90035413606798773182008-11-08T14:38:00.000+08:002008-11-08T14:38:00.000+08:00If you were a Harvard grad, you would/could flaunt...<I>If you were a Harvard grad, you would/could flaunt it anywhere in the world and your education qualities (real or otherwise) would be recognized. However, you can NEVER do the same with a NUS/NTU education.</I><BR/><BR/>And why so? Is it the Universities' fault? Or is it the Alumni fault? Or is it the gahmen fault? Even after NUS is ranked top 30 for a few years, people still think our own Universities screwed up.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to digress, but surely, if we correct this image issue, foreigners will be willing to pay instead of taking us as free lunch jumping boards!<BR/><BR/>And does anyone has statistics on how many foreigners skip bond and not get penalised/charged? That will tell us how much taxpayer money we lose every year on these obnoxious disgraceful people.hojiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05423730674115322708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-80831028238015179692008-11-07T14:09:00.000+08:002008-11-07T14:09:00.000+08:00What declining population? The population in Singa...What declining population? The population in Singapore has grown by half a million in the last 7 years!Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-65444496807443123852008-11-07T12:53:00.000+08:002008-11-07T12:53:00.000+08:00With the declining population and all, I'm sure th...With the declining population and all, I'm sure the government would have done a cost analysis study to see if the output would outweigh the input.<BR/><BR/>Unless there's a better idea. Not much could be done about it.msleepyheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865350687840052004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-27171445724995548122008-11-04T07:32:00.000+08:002008-11-04T07:32:00.000+08:00I think that the ladies tend to be less unhappy ab...I think that the ladies tend to be less unhappy about it.<BR/><BR/>The Singaporean men however are more likely to feel it. As they step into NTU for their 1st year, they see that their foreign JC ex-classmates are entering their final year.<BR/><BR/>Next the Singaporean man tries to apply for a hostel place. However all his foreign ex-JC classmates have taken up the places. So the Singaporean man has to spend 3 hours a day travelling back and forth between home and school (you know where NTU is, don't you).<BR/><BR/>Or if he does get a place, he learns that to keep it, he has to spend dozens of hours a month to gather the necessary points. His foreign ex-JC classmate does not need to, and can spend all that extra time studying for his exams. <BR/><BR/>Etc.Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-22191062196130962842008-11-04T00:07:00.000+08:002008-11-04T00:07:00.000+08:00I don't have any personal reasons against the subs...I don't have any personal reasons against the subsidies.<BR/>It is true that foreign students can also apply for tuition grants. They are guaranteed on-campus housing for 2 years. I see nothing wrong with the second; they don't have a home in Singapore. I never thought much about the tuition grant either. You must admit that some of them are pretty talented and I think if they come to regard Singapore as their home; it'd be great. My lab partner is one such foreign scholar. Despite the grumbles about skewing the bell-curve, I think there is a definite advantage in diverse student population. Also, I am from the NUS (FoS) and I think there aren't a lot of other singaporeans who are willing to major in Physics. Without foreign students, I think my class will be awfully small.fellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259462593002235166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-23867324882973414852008-11-03T12:00:00.000+08:002008-11-03T12:00:00.000+08:00I can't say for all nationalities, but as far as I...I can't say for all nationalities, but as far as I know, a very high percentage of Malaysians who have studied in Singapore ended up staying in Singapore for good, some even converted to citizens.Wormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16320022293585773995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-62912897335094886742008-11-03T02:30:00.000+08:002008-11-03T02:30:00.000+08:00eugene,Foreign undergraduate scholarship recipient...eugene,<BR/><BR/>Foreign undergraduate scholarship recipients get all expenses paid - books, housing, tuition, etc. They also receive priority in university housing. Roughly half of the foreign undergraduates (~9.5 to 10 percent of the total undergraduate population) in our local universities are scholarship recipients. <BR/><BR/>In contrast, of the locals who make up 80 percent of the undergraduate population, only 5 out of the 80 percent are on any scholarships.Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-7299642994044228202008-11-03T02:02:00.000+08:002008-11-03T02:02:00.000+08:00moomooman, The MOE policy during my time was that ...moomooman, <BR/><BR/>The MOE policy during my time was that the tuition grant recipients would be discharged from their bond obligations if they could show documentary proof that they could not find employment within 6 months of graduation.Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-61768659464364364212008-11-03T00:15:00.000+08:002008-11-03T00:15:00.000+08:00"Finally their finances will be pushed to the brea..."Finally their finances will be pushed to the breaking point, and they will appeal to the government: "Please exempt me from this rule, because I've tried my best for so long, and I still can't get a job here in Singapore. I want to go home to China / India / Malaysia / Vietnam".<BR/><BR/>Then the Singapore government will say, "Oh very well, I release you from this obligation." So the foreign chap packs up his bags and leaves Singapore for good."<BR/><BR/>Is this something you know that had happened or just a speculation?moomoomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02911270867099927784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-79813452171116545642008-11-02T22:10:00.000+08:002008-11-02T22:10:00.000+08:00Ever heard of biennial donation. Someone told me t...Ever heard of biennial donation. Someone told me that if you are a foreigner, all you need to do is fill up the biennial donation form from MOE, indicate the amount you wish to donate. With a decent sum of 10-20k or even more, you will be guaranteed a place in NUS/NTU. Is this true?K-Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03551703415693684604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-45915309831627945432008-11-02T13:19:00.001+08:002008-11-02T13:19:00.001+08:00with regard to comments from Eugene and ponder sti...with regard to comments from Eugene and ponder stibbons:<BR/><BR/>You are not comparing apples to apples. The both of you will go on exchanging responses to each other because both of you are right to a certain extent.<BR/><BR/>Please remember that we are talking about HARVARD and NUS/NTU here. If you were a Harvard grad, you would/could flaunt it anywhere in the world and your education qualities (real or otherwise) would be recognized. However, you can NEVER do the same with a NUS/NTU education. <BR/>(For those who are about to shoot me down on my last statement, travel and work round the world before you make any negative comments about what I just said. Singapore (and her universities) are not even close to as important as how our wonderful government portray them to be.)<BR/>Anyway, sorry, I was distracted, back to the point. Harvard uses it's financial aid to attract foreign students who, upon graduation, move on AND DON'T HAVE TO BE STUCK IN THE US. They spread their name that way. <BR/>Singapore on the other hand attracts foreign students to keep them here. People don't like to feel like hostages. So, they take the grants and financial aid, use it to obtain their degrees/post degrees and find every way to escape the imprisonment. Because they "escaped the imprisonment", the sense of loyalty is no longer there and when they go out to the working world, wherever they may be, they don't advertise that they are a product of a Singapore university. Harvard and many other top foreign universities love the fact that you go back to your home country and excel there. Things are done very differently.<BR/>Therefore, because of the difference in attitude, the usage of how financial aid is granted between Harvard and NUS/NTU cannot be compared.<BR/><BR/>Another point that was neglected, a Harvard education is in the range of US$45,000/annum (tuition and fees only, living expenses and books not included yet), maybe more. A NUS/NTU education is nowhere close to that. Harvard has more incentive to provide financial aid.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, a short story I coincidentally just heard. I was talking to a bunch of lecturers from various local tertiary institutions. I had just met them so I don't know anyone of them well. To the person, they all said that the foreigners entering our tertiary education system are cheating us blind and the government doesn't do anything to stop them. Many of them are granted financial aid but with a 3-5 yr employment bond after. One of the ways to "escape" the bond is to proof that one is unable to find employment (I think the time period is 3 months). This is a black and white issue, meaning, if they show a whole bunch of decline letters, they are freed of their bond to work here. So, they all apply for jobs that are WAY over their qualifications and once they have achieved their quota of rejections, they present it to whomever the authorities are and off they go, back to their motherland... maybe with a "Thank you Singapore" at Changi Airport. Most of the time, with just a snicker. One lecturer estimates the number of people who avoid fulfilling their bonds to be as high as 90%. <BR/>That's where our tax money goes... that's why we need ERP to subsidize the shortfall.ThinkForMeSingaporehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152539594163131746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-28940556452155065982008-11-02T13:19:00.000+08:002008-11-02T13:19:00.000+08:00with regard to comments from Eugene and ponder sti...with regard to comments from Eugene and ponder stibbons:<BR/><BR/>You are not comparing apples to apples. The both of you will go on exchanging responses to each other because both of you are right to a certain extent.<BR/><BR/>Please remember that we are talking about HARVARD and NUS/NTU here. If you were a Harvard grad, you would/could flaunt it anywhere in the world and your education qualities (real or otherwise) would be recognized. However, you can NEVER do the same with a NUS/NTU education. <BR/>(For those who are about to shoot me down on my last statement, travel and work round the world before you make any negative comments about what I just said. Singapore (and her universities) are not even close to as important as how our wonderful government portray them to be.)<BR/>Anyway, sorry, I was distracted, back to the point. Harvard uses it's financial aid to attract foreign students who, upon graduation, move on AND DON'T HAVE TO BE STUCK IN THE US. They spread their name that way. <BR/>Singapore on the other hand attracts foreign students to keep them here. People don't like to feel like hostages. So, they take the grants and financial aid, use it to obtain their degrees/post degrees and find every way to escape the imprisonment. Because they "escaped the imprisonment", the sense of loyalty is no longer there and when they go out to the working world, wherever they may be, they don't advertise that they are a product of a Singapore university. Harvard and many other top foreign universities love the fact that you go back to your home country and excel there. Things are done very differently.<BR/>Therefore, because of the difference in attitude, the usage of how financial aid is granted between Harvard and NUS/NTU cannot be compared.<BR/><BR/>Another point that was neglected, a Harvard education is in the range of US$45,000/annum (tuition and fees only, living expenses and books not included yet), maybe more. A NUS/NTU education is nowhere close to that. Harvard has more incentive to provide financial aid.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, a short story I coincidentally just heard. I was talking to a bunch of lecturers from various local tertiary institutions. I had just met them so I don't know anyone of them well. To the person, they all said that the foreigners entering our tertiary education system are cheating us blind and the government doesn't do anything to stop them. Many of them are granted financial aid but with a 3-5 yr employment bond after. One of the ways to "escape" the bond is to proof that one is unable to find employment (I think the time period is 3 months). This is a black and white issue, meaning, if they show a whole bunch of decline letters, they are freed of their bond to work here. So, they all apply for jobs that are WAY over their qualifications and once they have achieved their quota of rejections, they present it to whomever the authorities are and off they go, back to their motherland... maybe with a "Thank you Singapore" at Changi Airport. Most of the time, with just a snicker. One lecturer estimates the number of people who avoid fulfilling their bonds to be as high as 90%. <BR/>That's where our tax money goes... that's why we need ERP to subsidize the shortfall.ThinkForMeSingaporehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152539594163131746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-6619285747680270342008-11-01T21:44:00.000+08:002008-11-01T21:44:00.000+08:00We subsidise foreign students, yup. It is a sort o...We subsidise foreign students, yup. It is a sort of "service" or as the Chinese say -- for building guanxi. If you want to know details, just ask any teacher who's been involved in exchange programs--getting students here to go overseas (e.g. China) and students in the other country to come here. Ask them who pays how much.Fighting fithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865914072977139127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-15528252967257213782008-11-01T12:44:00.000+08:002008-11-01T12:44:00.000+08:00Does that aid include housing, food, daily expense...Does that aid include housing, food, daily expenses and so on? If so then I have to concede the point.<BR/><BR/>(As for loans, if I'm not wrong Harvard stopped giving them out a couple of years ago and replaced the loan component with grants. They're still available, but now quite unnecessary.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-88789956541137464622008-11-01T08:45:00.000+08:002008-11-01T08:45:00.000+08:00eugene,it's far more meaningful to look at only th...eugene,<BR/><BR/><I>it's far more meaningful to look at only the foreign students and see which percentage of them receive financial aid, and how much. And if you do so you'll see how it's likely that Harvard does in fact help foreign students to a greater extent than local universities.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, virtually all foreign undergraduates in our local universities receive aid in the form of tuition grants and scholarships directly and indirectly from the Singapore government. No foreign undergraduate pays the sticker price regardless of his/her family's income level.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, financial aid in Singapore for foreign undergraduates do not include loans or work. For Harvard, financial aid can include loans and some form of work.Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-79669822132962656522008-10-31T23:28:00.000+08:002008-10-31T23:28:00.000+08:00@ponder stibbonsPlease be civil. You don't even ha...@ponder stibbons<BR/><BR/>Please be civil. You don't even have to be from an elite US university to do that.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, you wrote<BR/><I>"But in no way does Harvard 'help' foreign students anywhere to the same extent that our local universities do."</I><BR/><BR/>I still disagree. It isn't appropriate to look at the percentage of students in the entire undergraduate cohort who are foreign <I>and</I> receive financial aid as you're trying to do; it's far more meaningful to look at only the foreign students and see which percentage of them receive financial aid, and how much. And if you do so you'll see how it's likely that Harvard does in fact help foreign students to a greater extent than local universities.<BR/><BR/>You also wrote, "We can therefore conclude that less than 8% of Harvard's undergraduate population receives financial aid."<BR/>Of course the real figure is closer to 60%, since US citizens are awarded financial aid based on the same criteria as well, but you "corrected" that in your next comment.<BR/><BR/>I don't know which university you went to, but Harvard (along with very few others) is unique in offering financial aid to <I>every</I> undergraduate. The overwhelming majority of US universities actually have very little financial aid for foreign students, and foreign applicants who say they will require financial support from teh university have a greatly reduced chance of being accepted, which will have contributed to the phenomenon you described.<BR/><BR/><BR/>@fox<BR/><BR/><I>"I don't think the object of giving out scholarships to foreign undergraduates is to increase the chances of getting more future donations from them."</I><BR/><BR/>I think it is part (not all) of the reason, at least in the context of Harvard. And this is not just for foreign undergraduates there, local (US) undergraduates too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-36487957509960567052008-10-31T22:19:00.000+08:002008-10-31T22:19:00.000+08:00Eugene,"But another point to realise is this: Offe...Eugene,<BR/><BR/><I>"But another point to realise is this: Offering financial aid increases the chances that students who receive such aid will be much more likely to donate back an even larger amount in future when they make it big. In addition, the cash for the financial aid actually comes from the returns on Harvard's investments, which as you might know are very sizeable. It's a winning formula."</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think the object of giving out scholarships to foreign undergraduates is to increase the chances of getting more future donations from them. <BR/><BR/>Medical and law students are probably the most financially successful segment of the undergraduate population after graduation but relatively little financial aid or scholarships are given to them by the local universities.<BR/><BR/>Also, in absolute numbers, most of the top academic students in our local universities are local while the majority of the undergraduate scholarship holders are non-locals. Clearly, these scholarships are given out on the basis of the recipient being non-locals and not for reasons like increased donation to the alma mater and pure academic ability.Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04726805279916950590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-4418001148891582812008-10-31T20:59:00.000+08:002008-10-31T20:59:00.000+08:00Also, many Singaporean students who manage to get ...Also, many Singaporean students who manage to get into places like Harvard come from upper-middle class or upper class families that make more than US$60,000 a year (= S$90,000 a year = $7500 a month, which is easily achievable in households where both parents are working professionals). At the elite private US university I went to, there were about 10 Singaporean undergraduates a year whose parents paid for everything. There were also plenty of rich kids from places like Hong Kong, Japan and Korea.<BR/><BR/>In any case, my emphasis was on the percentage of foreigners receiving such aid, as part of the total undergraduate population.Ponder Stibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387561315863534902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-50457245806705287992008-10-31T20:55:00.000+08:002008-10-31T20:55:00.000+08:00Eugene,Clearly you are incapable of understanding ...Eugene,<BR/><BR/>Clearly you are incapable of understanding plain English, or you were too lazy to read my entire comment and simply picked on a sentence you disliked. If you had read my comment with any care, you would have seen that I made the point that Harvard offers financial aid only to those who need it. Foreign students who can afford to pay their full fees have to pay their full fees. Furthermore, the percentage of foreigners in the undergraduate population of Harvard is only 8%. We can therefore conclude that less than 8% of Harvard's undergraduate population receives financial aid.<BR/><BR/>Contrast that with Singapore where most foreign undergraduates are here on taxpayer-funded scholarships, and where foreigners make up 20% of the undergraduate population.Ponder Stibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387561315863534902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-3972521338481345162008-10-31T15:05:00.000+08:002008-10-31T15:05:00.000+08:00I deem that almost any contribution into the alma ...I deem that almost any contribution into the alma mater funding pool would normally correspond with the level of pride shared by the alumni. Havard whilst being a classical example might not be applicable to most academic institutions in Singapore.<BR/><BR/>The division between foreigners and locals is a common feature in most higher education institution across many jurisdictions, especially in the field of fees payment and academic credibility. In the Singapore context, the consistent bridging exercise to balance such elements might have been over performed by the government to an extend where citizens are beginning to question the value of their citizenship.<BR/><BR/>I do not have any suggestion for this phenomenon but in my mind, I ponder whether there's any telling indication that a homogeneous approach to granting such subsidies, citizen and foreigners alike, would be the way forward to progress?Marquis_De_Sadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12225693376526204445noreply@blogger.com