tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post1169514377340850988..comments2024-03-19T18:44:15.041+08:00Comments on Little Stories: Medical School and the Uselessness of Being A CitizenGilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-80449649995174518902010-01-05T03:53:58.738+08:002010-01-05T03:53:58.738+08:00Hi,
I am The assistant editor with medicalsc...Hi,<br /> I am The assistant editor with medicalschool.org. I really liked your site and I am interested in building a relationship with your site. We want to spread public awareness. I hope you can help me out. Your site is a very useful resource.<br /><br />Please email me back with your URl in subject line to take a step ahead an to avoid spam.<br /><br />Thank you,<br />Sofia <br />sofia.medicalschool.org@gmail.comUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317873624981528378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-65016312158987319442009-10-05T09:09:03.044+08:002009-10-05T09:09:03.044+08:00J has stated wrong information about serving bond ...J has stated wrong information about serving bond overseas... service commitment will be served in Singapore... That's how I understood it initially...<br /><br />please refer to <br /><br />http://www.duke-nus.edu.sg/web/admission_faqs.htm<br /><br />You see, not everyone can be a doctor. You have to be smart, and in addition, have the aptitude. Attracting overseas students is a good idea. With the bond, they will stay in singapore for at least a couple of years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-78797774004111049602009-10-05T09:00:03.703+08:002009-10-05T09:00:03.703+08:00"(4) Foreigners CAN serve their bond in their..."(4) Foreigners CAN serve their bond in their countries if their families are not in singapore (although this is subject to approval, it makes you wonder why bond them at all?)"<br /><br />I am very surprised by this...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-39857298373452248632009-10-03T11:38:50.142+08:002009-10-03T11:38:50.142+08:001. Annual Fees:
S$35,000 for Singapore citizens,
...1. Annual Fees:<br />S$35,000 for Singapore citizens, <br />S$35,600 for Singapore Permanent Residents and<br />S$38,000 for international students.<br />Loans are available to matriculating students of any nationality for the purchase of laptops and to finance tuition fees. The Tuition Fee Loan (TFL) covers up to 90% of tuition fees payable by Singapore citizens.<br /><br />2. Service Commitment<br />4 years for Singapore citizens <br />5 years for international students and Singapore permanent residents<br />The period of your postgraduate training overseas however will not be counted towards your existing service commitment.<br /><br />3. Duke University Medical School<br />The Duke University School of Medicine places a high priority on need-based financial assistance for its students with a particular emphasis on grants and low-interest loans. US citizenship or permanent residence visa is required of all students receiving federal or institutional aid through the school.<br /><br />Couldn't find data on quota for international students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-73828170337938435412009-10-01T19:16:41.082+08:002009-10-01T19:16:41.082+08:001. No, it cannot be sour grapes because J has just...1. No, it cannot be sour grapes because J has just applied. He hasn't been rejected yet.<br /><br />2. See comment at September 14, 2009 6:56 AM. In the USA, Duke itself places a firm limit on the number of places for foreigners. How can there be equal treament?<br /><br />3. No, they do not pay higher fees.Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-52929389029042443992009-09-30T13:54:08.849+08:002009-09-30T13:54:08.849+08:00I don't know. My friend is in Duke-NUS and she...I don't know. My friend is in Duke-NUS and she is a local. Could it just be sour grapes for not getting in?<br /><br />I don't get the problem with equal treatment though? When I studied overseas I competed equally with Americans. <br /><br />I am sure Duke-NUS students who are foreigners pay higher fees, and if not, they are bonded just like our NUS students.PMGhttp://modernburrow.lah.ccnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-50222404624756972862009-09-24T15:25:35.900+08:002009-09-24T15:25:35.900+08:00hey say a NUS trained doctor, who is supposed to s...hey say a NUS trained doctor, who is supposed to serve 6 years of bond, serves 4 years, and then breaks his bond after that to head overseas, how much will the monetary penalty be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-25199293998875610652009-09-24T15:22:45.918+08:002009-09-24T15:22:45.918+08:00I am a medical student in NUS and for better or fo...I am a medical student in NUS and for better or for worse, I'll be working here once I graduate. But I think ALL singaporean doctors should have a stint working overseas, as opportunities in singapore are honestly limited. It is said that we have a shortage of doctors, but from my perspective, that isn't the case. There is a ridiculous amount of competition for a myriad of specialities, to the point that if a locally trained doctor ever wants to specialise, he/she MUST head abroad to pursue an MRCP/MD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-51061099837167646922009-09-23T23:41:57.292+08:002009-09-23T23:41:57.292+08:00Instead of launching into personal attacks against...Instead of launching into personal attacks against the good (angry) doctor, consider a few things:<br /><br />A) When purchasing products, do you not automatically pick and choose to find the best value for money? <br /><br />B) When thinking about your loved ones' lives, or even your own, do you not agree that you'd want the best doctor there is?<br /><br />C) If the above two questions, answered independently from all the holier-than-thou moral high ground that has been taken in this discussion, are "yes", then is the angry doctor wrong?<br /><br />I do not see the angry doctor as saying that citizenship should be useless when it comes down to selection for medical students. I see his comments as a very simple "this should be meritocracy at work" - as it should. For whatever reason it may be (for earning rich sick people's money, or for our own survival's sake), we all want the best, most competent, most compassionate doctor treating us. If the issue was not one of foreigner vs. local, but one of local vs. local, would his arguments suddenly make much more sense? <br /><br />I would personally prefer two separate schemes for assisting prospective medical students, foreign or otherwise, with correspondingly different obligations to be repaid by the students after their course of studies are over. I do not want to disadvantage good local students who can end up becoming medical legends in their own right, but neither do I want to deny other deserving students the benefit of going through our medical education system, and, if so, spreading the good name of NUS and Singapore as a medical hub. Both ways end up benefiting Singapore <b>as a whole</b> - it just so happens that right now, the system seems to be purely meritocratic (or unfair to citizens, depending on one's world view).Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-86522665826407797772009-09-21T20:42:59.496+08:002009-09-21T20:42:59.496+08:00Obviously when you're in cahoots with the elit...Obviously when you're in cahoots with the elite the rest of the poor don't matter any more. It would be otherwise "rational" to keep up the rhetoric with self delusional techniques in hope that the truth won't be uncovered... <br /><br />The evidence is on a platter for all to see. Perhaps some people just have their eyes plastered :)<br /><br />fooeyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-59340341224138726392009-09-20T01:44:12.435+08:002009-09-20T01:44:12.435+08:00People like Angry Doc hails from the same lineage ...People like Angry Doc hails from the same lineage of 'thinking patterns' as those of the MIW...nay, it's more simpler, he is one of those who buys into the arguments put forth by the elite, and is willing to defend it because it is rational to do so. For them to do otherwise, is indeed irrational and unthinkable. For such persons, there are no such things as a true country.Tednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-25193912356359480062009-09-19T18:23:25.222+08:002009-09-19T18:23:25.222+08:00You are conflating the issues here.
Even if your ...You are conflating the issues here.<br /><br />Even if your aim is to develop our own medical system, the question of whom to admit remains.<br /><br />Now I agree with RJ and Mr Wang that if the state subsidised medical training, then it has the right to demand something in return from the medical student, in this case in the form of a bond or refund. This should apply to both locals and foreigners equally.<br /><br />Now assuming two candidates, one local and one foreigner, both of whom are willing to serve the bond, which one amongst the two should we pick? The Singaporean simply because he is Singaporean? Or the better of the two, regardless of their nationality?angry dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03132410467147982699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-27913860466932273312009-09-19T12:34:04.808+08:002009-09-19T12:34:04.808+08:00if we were to follow the trend of thought by angry...if we were to follow the trend of thought by angry doc, how are we to expect industries to develop in the first place?<br /><br />If everyone adopted such a thinking, all developing worlds should be using the doctors from the States since they are one of the best in the world.<br /><br />To actually develop our field of medicine, it is vital to build up a pool of talents of our own people. Is that not how the States in the first place build up their industry?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-86827034736403285622009-09-18T21:38:34.026+08:002009-09-18T21:38:34.026+08:00"A country is a big family and citizens are f..."A country is a big family and citizens are family members. No?"<br /><br />I don't think so. My family are my family, and I won't spend a cent on someone outside my family that I don't have to or want to, Singaporean or foreigner. I don't care, for example, if the bus driver is a Singaporean or a Malaysian - the safest driver should be the one driving the bus.<br /><br />I think you are carrying the analogy too far by saying that just because we take care of our own family we should give all the places to medical school to our own family. That is called nepotism, and we all know what happens when we give jobs to our own family whether or not they are the best-qualified just because they are family...<br /><br />I ask in return: when you are sick, do you want to be treated by a Singaporean doctor, or a foreigner doctor who is better than him? Shouldn't the best man do the job, regardless of nationality?angry dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03132410467147982699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-66207256203573257232009-09-18T13:45:11.372+08:002009-09-18T13:45:11.372+08:00Dear angry doc
If u are still reading this then f...Dear angry doc<br /><br />If u are still reading this then first of all I admit my experienceSSS with foreign doctorSSS had left me with a bitter taste.<br /><br />I also admit I do not know enough of the selection process for NUS Medicine to make a judgement. <br /><br />However, I do know that too many aspiring local doctors are not given the chance. We will never know if they could have been a great doctor or not ... simply because they were never given the chance. If our people are our greatest resource then this wastage of potential is unforgivable.<br /><br />Ah WangAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-54566442089105075682009-09-18T12:36:08.259+08:002009-09-18T12:36:08.259+08:00anon September 16, 2009 9:10 PM
> The real prob...anon September 16, 2009 9:10 PM<br />> The real problem is that the local demand for medical education far outstrips the supply. <br /><br />That's not a problem. Singapore has far fewer doctors than required of a 1st-world country!<br /><br /><br />> If a local's dream is to become a doctor, and they do not get accepted into NUS, they should seek out alternatives. <br /><br />Indeed! And the alternative is to vote out PAP which has underestimated the number of doctors required for nearly 20 years (George Yeo's healthcare report of early 1990s) despite medical professionals telling it otherwise, realised its mistake only recently, but still refuses to train enough doctors (Duke is to train clinician scientists, not practising doctors), and prefers to import cheap already-trained foreign doctors by lowering medical practice license criteria instead!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-2751206860947241592009-09-18T12:27:37.970+08:002009-09-18T12:27:37.970+08:00Angry doc wrote:
"As for whether or not I sho...<b>Angry doc</b> wrote:<br />"As for whether or not I should want my <i>tax money</i> to fund my own child through medical school [over a foreign student]..."<br /><br />That's not what I asked. Please do not misrepresent my question. What I asked was:<br /><br />[Quote]<br />"Do you want to spend your <i>hard-earned money from your medical practice</i> to sponsor your less-qualified son for his costly medical school education given that he got "only" ABB in his A-levels,<br /><br />.. or do you prefer to deny your son of his ambition because you prefer to spend your hard-earned money to sponsor a more qualified young man unrelated to you, with AAA in his A-level, in the hope that one day, after he becomes a doctor, you can adopt him as your step-son and he will some day call you step-dad?... may I know what the word "<i>family</i>" means to you?<br />[UNQUOTE]<br /><br />So, please do *not* tell me about your political view of how you think the <i>country</i> should be spending your <i>tax money</i>, because that's not what I asked. Instead, tell me directly how within <i>your family</i>, you will be spending your <i>hard-earned money from your medical practice</i>.<br /><br />To put it in multiple-choice: <br />Within <i>your family</i>, will you use your money (i.e. <i>family savings</i> from your medical practice income, not tax money - you can use tax money to pay for your son's NUS tuition fee at the bursar's office meh?) to support:<br />(a) your son with grade ABB at A-level, or<br />(b) unrelated young man with grade AAA at A-level,<br />through medical school?<br /><br />Answer me honestly:<br />Are you sure this is how <i>your family</i> works: instead of choosing (a), <i>your family</i> will, as a way to do (b), advertise in the newspaper to find the young man with the best A-level in the world, and then support this person through medical school with <i>your family savings</i> from your hard-earned money from your medical practice, and tell your son to go fly kite and to forget about getting any <i>family money</i> from you? And furthermore, the way <i>your family values</i> work is such that within <i>your family</i>, "wanting my son to be chosen [by you to be the one to be supported through medical school with your family savings derived from your medical practice] over someone more qualified him makes me unfit to be a member of the medical fraternity?"<br /><br />Pardon me again, what kind of a father does that makes you if this is how <i>your family</i> makes its decision about whom to spend the <i>family's savings</i> on?<br /><br /><br />A country is a big family and citizens are family members. No?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-66584718950671229582009-09-16T21:10:44.104+08:002009-09-16T21:10:44.104+08:00Many local university tie-ups with foreign institu...Many local university tie-ups with foreign institutions have no real purpose other than to improve the prestige of the local university. Of course they want the 'best of the best' to be their students. Where best is defined as 18 year olds that are somehow judged worthy. There is no more noble goal like to develop the local medical talent pool or to exchange research.<br /><br />The real problem is that the local demand for medical education far outstrips the supply. Part of the problem is the perceived prestige of being a doctor. The other part of the problem is the quota in the number of places in medicine every year.<br /><br />If a local's dream is to become a doctor, and they do not get accepted into NUS, they should seek out alternatives. The admissions process is oversaturated with other 18 year olds (foreign and local) who only want to be doctors because it is 'prestigious'. <br /><br />The saddest thing is, many of the admitted 18 year olds' greatest accomplishment in life would be to get into a prestigious course in a prestigious university. Unfortunately, they all end up being mediocre professionals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-67436419009968124752009-09-16T12:13:03.663+08:002009-09-16T12:13:03.663+08:00I am simply awestruck by the arrogance of foreigne...I am simply awestruck by the arrogance of foreigners retorting that paying tax entitles them automatically to handouts from the government.<br /><br />Let me explain why Singaporeans are so angry besides the obvious sticking point of NS which has been raised to the death.<br /><br />Firstly, for those who come here to work, how many of them are seriously wanting to make Singapore home for themselves and their offspring? Are most of them not here because they can earn more in Singapore than elsewhere? If so, what is the big deal about the tax? Not to mention the extremely low rates compared to other countries.<br /><br />Secondly, many of those working here hail from a country where living costs are a mere fraction of that in Singapore. They have the luxury of retiring back in their countries comfortably after they have earned enough money in Singapore. For Singaporeans, they have no such option. This issue, coupled with the increased competition (for jobs, resources, space, etc), contributes to the frustration felt by Singaporeans. Most foreigners would not empathise with this because they come from a much bigger country where they can always fall back on.<br /><br />I have no arguments with foreigners wanting to come to Singapore to earn more money. It is the government I am angry with for mishandling the issue of immigration. Maybe "mishandle" is putting it too kindly, I think classifying it as treason would be more befitting for the situation now can be regarded as an invasion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-30497365147746494592009-09-16T09:51:22.777+08:002009-09-16T09:51:22.777+08:00And you are assuming that straight A students make...<i>And you are assuming that straight A students make the best medical students or doctors.</i><br /><br />Oh! And I believe NUS is also rejecting non-straight A students by even more bucketloads!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-9642665345859139172009-09-15T18:55:21.884+08:002009-09-15T18:55:21.884+08:00"The fact today stands that our medical schoo..."The fact today stands that our medical schools are rejecting straight A students, by the bucketloads."<br /><br />And you are assuming that straight A students make the best medical students or doctors.angry dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03132410467147982699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-57877218019653123752009-09-15T18:14:08.118+08:002009-09-15T18:14:08.118+08:00The Singapore government cannot expand NUS medical...<i>The Singapore government cannot expand NUS medical faculty any further due to physical constraint.</i><br /><br />Really? I thought we paid millions for early planning!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-50228160702941929512009-09-15T18:05:16.199+08:002009-09-15T18:05:16.199+08:00Foreigners pay tax in Singapore too!
Foriengers p...<i>Foreigners pay tax in Singapore too!</i><br /><br />Foriengers pay tax in Singapore as <b>rental</b> for the infrasturcture built and maintained by Singaporean tax dollars.<br /><br />My question back to you is, are you lobbying your government to give ME (or all Singaporeans) same priviledges as you, a citizen, in your country, as you are lobbying for us to do so for you now in Singapore?<br /><br />Hey, we'll pay tax in your country too!<br /><br />So how?<br /><br />Hypocritical now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-14744564626102690932009-09-15T18:01:49.282+08:002009-09-15T18:01:49.282+08:00I would rather be treated by a well-qualified doct...<i>I would rather be treated by a well-qualified doctor, local or foreign, than by a poorly-qualified doctor, local or foreign.</i><br /><br />This statement is good only if backed up by the fact that we do not have sufficient good people wanting to be doctors.<br /><br />The fact today stands that our medical schools are rejecting straight A students, by the bucketloads.<br /><br />You are making a false statement which does not stand up to contest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4405345292513335071.post-50474222125374246102009-09-15T17:15:00.484+08:002009-09-15T17:15:00.484+08:00Ah Wang,
If you think that the medical school sel...Ah Wang,<br /><br />If you think that the medical school selection process is flawed, then it can as easily choose second-rate Singaporean students over first-rate foreigners, or second rate Singaporean students over first-rate Singaporean, couldn't it?<br /><br />So is the problem the medical school selection process, or do you think Singaporean students should always be selected over foreigners?<br /><br />I have worked with foreigner-doctors and foreigner-local graduates - they probably know more about local health culture than most young Singaporeans these days who are not involved in healthcare.angry dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03132410467147982699noreply@blogger.com